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With the introduction of our new Guild Spotlight series, questions have arisen concerning the nature of a guild’s position on a worldwide scale. While it can be difficult to accurately measure or compare guilds across servers, time zones and continents, guilds sometimes face similar competition within their own server. In these cases a more accurate representation of the trials and tribulations of guild competition can be taken.
Some guilds exist on servers on which they enjoy a relative monopoly as the “premier” guild on the server, at least for their own faction. However, others, like <Death Jesters> (Stormrage-US) play on servers in which they are forced to compete with other very high end guilds for the prestige of “server’s best” let alone “world’s best.” How does this guild competition (either same- or cross-faction), or lack thereof, affect the guilds at question, their progress through content, and the other players on the server as a whole? I caught up with Sparty, the GM of <Death Jesters>, and officers Rootleaf, Oafijev, Onewarf, Loganis, Miav, and Nebshar to get their thoughts on the issue.
Links: Home Page, WoW Armory, WoWProgress, WoWJutsu, Stormrage-US Forums
Please provide us with a little bit of background for <Death Jesters>. How long has your guild been around and competing for "server # 1"? How many guilds on your server do you see as serious competition? Have competing guilds come and gone over the years?
We originally formed in January of 2004. We were a number of players that came together in beta from different backgrounds (EQ, AC, DAoC) and landed on the same server. This guild that formed from a handful of North Americans, Swedes and South Africans has been a top server guild since Onyxia was killed and we have pretty much had server firsts and seconds since BWL. We've outlived and outplayed many competing guilds. At the moment there are probably around three Alliance guilds considered to be top tier, and another handful in the next tier of progression.
What separates <Death Jesters> from other raiding guilds?
In short: atmosphere guild integrity. We've been around for four years for a reason, and that’s because we've kept a high degree of class and integrity. We've had our ups and downs like every other guild, learned from our mistakes, and risen past them. We've had people come and go over the years, and many come back because they can find no guild better. They love the atmosphere in guild chat, feeling welcome, and that they are a part of something unique. We have had players leave for top North American guilds in the past, and when asked what made the difference between us and them in progression, they replied that those guilds grinded longer. They weren't happy in “mercenary” guilds where they were just another peon for their officers, where turnover was high and the app list a mile long. Raiders find a long-term home here, players they can rely on, and people they can ultimately trust.
Do you view <Death Jesters> as being friendly with other guilds on the server or does the competition take on more of a hostile nature?
That's been part of our mandate since we formed. In <Death Jesters> we take our reputation very seriously, both with other guilds and with the realm at large. We think we generally have a friendly rivalry. As an example, we teamed with <Integrity> to take down all the horde leaders at level 70 three times so people in both guilds could get the black bear pre-WotLK. We've loaned out Hearts of Darkness to guilds shortly after we killed Mother Shahraz so that guilds would not be bottlenecked in BT for too long. Ultimately, the raiding pool on every realm is fairly static and it is only going to bite you in the end to treat people and other guilds with disrespect. People remember your names, your guild and your reputation. And that is part of the reason competing guilds have fallen apart while we have thrived.
How has guild vs. guild competition helped or hurt <Death Jesters> in the past? And how do you see similar competition affecting the guild's progression through Wrath of the Lich King content?
We believe that guild vs. guild competition really stimulates our desire to play harder. Many of us come from the old hardcore-EQ mentality, where there were no instances, and the thrill of the hunt really fueled you. In the same way that competition benefited us in the past, it will likely do so again. Nobody here wants to be the last one to clear content. Players want to be the first to do something, whether it be raiding achievements, profession achievements (Nebshar as US-first 450 Leatherworker) or new titles. The introduction of achievements gave raiders something they've been asking for, for a long time.
Did you experience any sort of forced cooperation with other guilds during the AQ opening event? Also, how did you find the "server-wide effort" nature of that event?
We most definitely did. In line with trying to provide a beneficial server presence, we implemented a lottery for people to send AQ materials. We received 17,904 separate in game mails with players submitting materials to speed the War Effort along. We gave out thousands of gold, BoE epics, and even runs through MC/BWL to people that donated. A little known fact is that we donated over half of the Silithid Carapace Fragments (over 16,000) of reputation so that another guild could ring the gong and open the gates for everyone. This was much more preferable to us than having the server fall behind while all guilds sat on their hoards of fragments. To this day, we have not been repaid in any way, short of attempts at actively recruiting our guild members. Karma works in funny ways, and that’s probably why we were selected for this interview over other guilds.
I know of some hardcore players that actually maintain raiding characters on both the top Alliance and Horde guilds on the same server. Do you know anyone that does something similar and how do you think that sort of situation would affect guild relations?
We have had a few players that had alts on Horde side and on other servers. Though they mostly used them for PvP, I think that it really was beneficial to us, as people know they are alts of "So-and-so” of <Death Jesters> and could expect a highly skilled player on either their Alliance or Horde character. Additionally, we had a couple players raid on their alts with other guilds in different time zones. Their attendance with us wasn’t affected, but they were able to help the other guilds with the knowledge of the encounters from us.
Have you ever had any drama concerning world boss spawn competition in the past, either same- or cross-faction? It has been my experience that same-faction spawn competition can get much nastier than cross-faction competition; do you have the same feeling?
There has certainly been a lot of drama with world bosses. Ever since Kazzak was introduced, there has been quite a bit of griefing by lesser guilds logging on alts, or attempting to wipe raids. With Kazzak, it came to a point where a GM intervened and asked the raid leaders to roll to decide which guild would attempt first and any subsequent griefing would result in immediate suspension. Likewise, the Emerald Dragons were an enormous source of drama. Some guilds were known for griefing, killstealing, and had a general reputation for that kind of behavior. We fraps'd occasions where they would deliberately try to train dragonkin on top of our raid, or would pull aggro to have a dragon breathe onto our raid. At one point the griefing and killstealing was so bad that we organized an agreement with most Horde and Alliance raiding guilds on Emerald Dragon etiquette: the first guild to clear the trash and drakes to a dragon had the first shot at it. All but the notorious griefing guilds agreed to it. One famous server encounter is called Rootleaf's Gambit. During this encounter in the Hinterlands, two of those griefing guilds were right behind us as we were clearing. So our raid leader, Rootleaf, suggested we pull the first named drake and feign pulling the boss. We knew the guild would try to pull the dragon then, so we let them, purposely not killing the drake (Rothos) the pathing him around the portal. Once they pulled, we retreated to a safe distance and watched happily as the patrolling drake came in and wiped their raid. We came in, pulled, killed, and looted; it was a glorious battle. Coincidentally those griefing guilds are no longer around. :-)
How do you feel the various aspects of guild competition in general affect other players on the server (members of smaller guilds or unguilded players)?
I think that really depends on a few different things. Some players look for the kill, new content to clear and are very competitive by nature. They will seek the guilds that are competitive as well. It brings in more recruits to more progressed guilds, thus hurting the smaller guilds, but that happens everywhere. Besides server-server competition such as the AQ gate opening, we think the more casual players are not really affected.
If given the choice, would you change any aspect of the game or its mechanics to increase or decrease any aspect of guild competition? Why or why not?
We would really love to see more competition and world bosses like the old glory days. It was incredible to coordinate attacks on green dragons and it brought out the best and worst in people. We still have text messages on our phones from 2 years ago: "World dragons up!" Killing bosses and clearing content is a lot of fun, but few things are better than pulling and killing a green dragon, knowing that if you fail, there is a full raid force of 40 people behind you, waiting to kill the boss.
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So much fun with all the ganking and drama!!
