[WoRBot]

Quote from: Twentyfifthnovember.com (Source)

We are proud to declare that all WOTLK PVE raid content has now been cleared. This is both a moment of triumph and a cause for concern. The question in all our minds right now is if we could do this, how soon until the rest of the top guilds in the world clear all the raid content that WOTLK has to offer? Did Blizzard miscalculate in the tuning of these encounters? Or is this Blizzard folding under the weight of a large casual player base that demands to be on equal footing with end-game raiders?

Yes, it's only been two days since release, and yes all raid content has been defeated on EU-Magtheridon.  The scary thing is, if you look at Kungen's profile on the official Armory, none of the Wrath of the Lich King items are even activated.  Is this cause for concern?  I'm not entirely sure... I mean yes, clearing all the raid content there is to offer in the expansion two days into it is definitely worrying.  You have to consider the facts though.

• Both of these guilds have only one objective: to be the best, to be first, to only focus on clearing PvE content.
  
• Both of these guilds were extremely well equipped going into the expansion, making their leveling process much quicker, as well as reducing the need for upgraded items prior to going into the raid content.
  
• Both have had previous experience with Naxxramas, and no doubt extensively tested beta; not only were they familiar with the layout of the zone and the basics, but they were also familiar with the encounters as they are now.

You can check out the loot from their adventures on http://www.twentyfifthnovember.com/, along with pretty screenshots of all of their realm first achievements and boss kill screens.

[Shudo]

Without trying to dramatise, I think this is going to have some impact on WoW. One way or the other. I salute them!

[TommiTMX]

I personally think the amount of practise they had in Naxx pre-tbc and then in Beta as well to adjust to any changes benefitted them a lot tbh.

[Vradchuk91]

Honestly this is sad. For the whole community, for a great game and the people who completed these instances.

It is after all...a game.

[weenietot]

Quote

Or is this Blizzard folding under the weight of a large casual player base that demands to be on equal footing with end-game raiders?

Of course. They can either turn off 5,000 players or 500,000. The minority loses to the revenue of the masses here. If they don't like it, they can go play Warhammer.

[Sitri]

Glad I stepped away from the game when they gave Arena gear for Honor Points. This is sad.

[Chrono]

They are rather fast : o

Misscalculation by Blizzard?

[Sphaerus]

Well fan-bloody-tastic, who really cares?

Everyone knows this is a lot that is beyond hardcore. These are the people who use vacation days from work to play WoW for days on end without sleep for the sake of getting world firsts, and while there's nothing "wrong" with that, using them as a barometer for anything is absolutely moronic.

Personally, if a the top ten percent of the "average" (average being, let's say, the middle 50% of all raiding guilds) serious raiding guilds manage to tromp through raid content a bit too quickly for their tastes so that the "casual" serious raiding guilds (thise group being, say, the bottom 20% of that middle-fifty) actually manage to see content in a reasonable time frame, then I could give a crap less about the feelings of the people who sacrifice work, personal life, and other hobbies for the sake of WoW.

I don't see anything wrong with WoW being your primary hobby, but bursting into tears because the game has been tuned to be more accessible to people with more than one hobby and a life outside of online gaming is absolutely inexcusable. There's nothing awful about being a hard-core raiding guild, but if the entirety of the game is tuned to a significant minority of players, something stupid is afoot.

[Imogen]

Congratulations to them, but they are going to be terribly bored for a couple of months for sure. They could of at least waited for the competition to wake up and get out of bed.

[Vekrul]

Sphaerus said:

Well fan-bloody-tastic, who really cares?

Everyone knows this is a lot that is beyond hardcore. These are the people who use vacation days from work to play WoW for days on end without sleep for the sake of getting world firsts, and while there's nothing "wrong" with that, using them as a barometer for anything is absolutely moronic.

Personally, if a the top ten percent of the "average" (average being, let's say, the middle 50% of all raiding guilds) serious raiding guilds manage to tromp through raid content a bit too quickly for their tastes so that the "casual" serious raiding guilds (thise group being, say, the bottom 20% of that middle-fifty) actually manage to see content in a reasonable time frame, then I could give a crap less about the feelings of the people who sacrifice work, personal life, and other hobbies for the sake of WoW.

I don't see anything wrong with WoW being your primary hobby, but bursting into tears because the game has been tuned to be more accessible to people with more than one hobby and a life outside of online gaming is absolutely inexcusable. There's nothing awful about being a hard-core raiding guild, but if the entirety of the game is tuned to a significant minority of players, something stupid is afoot.

Exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Akumas]

Let's keep in perspective that what they did represents an extremely small percentage of the WoW community. I mean come on, this is what these few guilds do. I'm not surprised one bit by this news, especially after seeing similar news all over WoR over the years.

And no, their efforts don't reflect the structure of the game. Regardless of how difficult or large WoW content ever gets, groups like this merged Nihilum/SK Gaming one will still clear it all due to the fact that they fall into the "hardcore raider" group. They've done it before and will do it again, although I'm sure current guilds will die off and/or further merge in the future, giving rise to new ones to take their place. They experienced the content beforehand, raced to get there, and then poopsocked until it was done. Remember that the hardcore raiding demographic has one thing in common - lots of free time, well, at least more free time than most other individuals. Once you have that as a supporting pillar it opens up the doors of opportunity to perform similar WoW feats.

[SavageJ]

Sphaerus said:

Well fan-bloody-tastic, who really cares?

Everyone knows this is a lot that is beyond hardcore. These are the people who use vacation days from work to play WoW for days on end without sleep for the sake of getting world firsts, and while there's nothing "wrong" with that, using them as a barometer for anything is absolutely moronic.

Personally, if a the top ten percent of the "average" (average being, let's say, the middle 50% of all raiding guilds) serious raiding guilds manage to tromp through raid content a bit too quickly for their tastes so that the "casual" serious raiding guilds (thise group being, say, the bottom 20% of that middle-fifty) actually manage to see content in a reasonable time frame, then I could give a crap less about the feelings of the people who sacrifice work, personal life, and other hobbies for the sake of WoW.

I don't see anything wrong with WoW being your primary hobby, but bursting into tears because the game has been tuned to be more accessible to people with more than one hobby and a life outside of online gaming is absolutely inexcusable. There's nothing awful about being a hard-core raiding guild, but if the entirety of the game is tuned to a significant minority of players, something stupid is afoot.

QFT, very well put.

If you want to spend all of your free time and your vacation days to trollop through content in a video game rather than spending it with friends and family or hell even fishing or hunting or something, then this is what you get.

And if its really really really so bad that you just cant stand it, there's always Eve, Warhammer, Age of Fail, the list continues.

Honestly, quit blaming the casuals for your insatiable hunger for pixels.

[ilquax]

This sucks

[zaxxor]

Sphaerus said:

Well fan-bloody-tastic, who really cares?

Everyone knows this is a lot that is beyond hardcore. These are the people who use vacation days from work to play WoW for days on end without sleep for the sake of getting world firsts, and while there's nothing "wrong" with that, using them as a barometer for anything is absolutely moronic.

Personally, if a the top ten percent of the "average" (average being, let's say, the middle 50% of all raiding guilds) serious raiding guilds manage to tromp through raid content a bit too quickly for their tastes so that the "casual" serious raiding guilds (thise group being, say, the bottom 20% of that middle-fifty) actually manage to see content in a reasonable time frame, then I could give a crap less about the feelings of the people who sacrifice work, personal life, and other hobbies for the sake of WoW.

I don't see anything wrong with WoW being your primary hobby, but bursting into tears because the game has been tuned to be more accessible to people with more than one hobby and a life outside of online gaming is absolutely inexcusable. There's nothing awful about being a hard-core raiding guild, but if the entirety of the game is tuned to a significant minority of players, something stupid is afoot.

I could not have said it better..great reply

[Kaneiac]

Sphaerus said:

Well fan-bloody-tastic, who really cares?

Everyone knows this is a lot that is beyond hardcore. These are the people who use vacation days from work to play WoW for days on end without sleep for the sake of getting world firsts, and while there's nothing "wrong" with that, using them as a barometer for anything is absolutely moronic.

Personally, if a the top ten percent of the "average" (average being, let's say, the middle 50% of all raiding guilds) serious raiding guilds manage to tromp through raid content a bit too quickly for their tastes so that the "casual" serious raiding guilds (thise group being, say, the bottom 20% of that middle-fifty) actually manage to see content in a reasonable time frame, then I could give a crap less about the feelings of the people who sacrifice work, personal life, and other hobbies for the sake of WoW.

I don't see anything wrong with WoW being your primary hobby, but bursting into tears because the game has been tuned to be more accessible to people with more than one hobby and a life outside of online gaming is absolutely inexcusable. There's nothing awful about being a hard-core raiding guild, but if the entirety of the game is tuned to a significant minority of players, something stupid is afoot.

Thank YOU.

[Yoshiyuki Blade]

Sphaerus said:

Well fan-bloody-tastic, who really cares?

Everyone knows this is a lot that is beyond hardcore. These are the people who use vacation days from work to play WoW for days on end without sleep for the sake of getting world firsts, and while there's nothing "wrong" with that, using them as a barometer for anything is absolutely moronic.

Personally, if a the top ten percent of the "average" (average being, let's say, the middle 50% of all raiding guilds) serious raiding guilds manage to tromp through raid content a bit too quickly for their tastes so that the "casual" serious raiding guilds (thise group being, say, the bottom 20% of that middle-fifty) actually manage to see content in a reasonable time frame, then I could give a crap less about the feelings of the people who sacrifice work, personal life, and other hobbies for the sake of WoW.

I don't see anything wrong with WoW being your primary hobby, but bursting into tears because the game has been tuned to be more accessible to people with more than one hobby and a life outside of online gaming is absolutely inexcusable. There's nothing awful about being a hard-core raiding guild, but if the entirety of the game is tuned to a significant minority of players, something stupid is afoot.

QFT.

Did they also not realized that Blizz tuned entry-level raids to be much easier than the brick-wall raids TBC had? I think they were just expecting the same old cock-blocks that TBC had (which was probably made specifically to hold back hardcore raiders), and didn't pay attention to what Blizz has been saying this whole time.

[Nepenthee]

This means nothing to anybody no more so they should just leave that game and get a normal life,this is not being hardcore anymore this is just being bunch of people that forgot about joy of the game etc..nothing more to say.

Bravo!Who will give them a medal. lol

[Vysogota]

from Kazzak-EU killed Sartharion too - I wouldn't be surprised if they manages to clear all content before reset as well. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if half a dozen top guilds manages to do that.

[Szilia]

I don't think its a miscalculations from Blizz. These guys are the best in the world, their gear from Sunwell is sufficient for raiding in LK intro and the intro instances is better tuned for the overall community in LK than is was in BC. (Don't argue, unnerfed tier 4 + 5 instances was way too hard for the average player).
Also take into account that players now has had the whole BC to learn more encounters and improve overall performance
I believe its good for most of the community, except from the really hardcore raiders - they won't get a real challenge at least until the next patch and perhaps first later than that.
It is kinda sad to see the top guild run through it that fast, but I guess Blizz had to make a choise - they can't simply ignore the normal players when this is the first instances in Northrend. To avoid this they should have made heroic versions of 25 mans, but again, that would just add another harder tier for everyone to master.
Problem boils down to the difference between the "best" and the "worst" raiding guild and Blizzard trying to please everyone. And if something have to be sacrificed, it'll sadly be the hardcore part, seen from a purely financial point of view. Anyways, Im sure we'll see the high standard we saw in SW return later, but it just can't be justified starting of with that kind of dificulty.

EDIT: Excellent reply Sphaerus, I was just writing this and then ended in a run before I posted, so didn't saw yours until after I'd posted:)

[Pyro]

It's going to be interesting to see how mid range guilds do. Personally I like what I'm hearing. People should not sacrifice their life for a game that's ridiculous, I think mmorpgs should be pvp focused, with a solid and entertaining pve aspect that ALL players can thoroughly enjoy. You're paying for the whole game you should get to experience it all. GJ Blizz.