[damaniac82]

Maodox said:

Thanks, I was hoping someone would mention at least BT. Honestly, if you can't fill in about a thousand blanks for alliance lore simply by mentioning BT you've really missed out on some of the major lore TBC has to offer.

I think this is because 90% of the players didn't have the opportunity, which is sad I think this is one reason for Blizz to make 10 and 25 ppl version of the same raids (with same scripted events, cutscenes, dialogs, whatever - i guess)

[Nymrohd]

I seriously do not understand why people expect two opposing forces in a medieval world to show any good will towards each other. It is entirely anachronistic. However said lands were lost (certainly by some fault of the Alliance and its prominent members), they are still occupied by the Horde. Certainly the Forsaken and the blood elves are essentially defectors still occupying their original lands. But in Arathi, the horde is claiming human lands by force (unlike Tarren Mill which arguably could belong to people turned by the Scourge who then joined the Forsaken. In Ashenvale, orcs are despoiling lands that have been elven for millenia. The orcs of the horde are still largely invaders claiming living space by force with the full backing of the Warchief (AB and WSG). And the Alliance has every moral right to reclaim those lands. Meanwhile Wrynn returned to find the only intact human kingdom (Kul Tiras is probably still intact but they very much forgot it existed . . .) in shambles (every single human zone is contested by some external force). How is he serving the Alliance by following the pacifist Jaina, when his people have been decimated and need resources to expand, and why is he supposed to allow the Horde any land that was claimed by members of the Alliance for centuries. And seriously, why on earth should he not attack UC at a moment when it's defenses are minimal?

And in all honesty, Thrall is a Mary Sue. This is hardly even debatable. The lore design simply fails to be pragmatic on this character.

[ErikOO7]

I'm trying not to read any spoilers until I've seen this myself, but I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Can anyone tell me real quick how I can experience this in-game as both horde and alliance? Where do I start? Thanks

[Jinx16]

If Thrall really wanted to avoid war, there was a pretty easy solution. Kill Sylvanas, take her head. Put the head in a box with a note reading:

"Dear King Varian;
Welcome back! Sorry about that whole slave gladiator buisness we kinda put you through...our bad! Anywho, this crazy chick let a dreadlord run wild through one of our capitals and he's the one responsible for killing your homeboy. As you can see, Undercity will soon be "under new management" as they say, to make sure things like this don't happen again. Hopefully we can soon meet up in Kharazan for a spirited game of chess and put all this ugly buisness behind us.

Best wishes;
-Thrall "

Give said box to Jaina to deliver to King Wrynn. War avoided, new era of alliance/horde cooperation begins.

[Zalmanusa]

Jinx16 said:

If Thrall really wanted to avoid war, there was a pretty easy solution. Kill Sylvanas, take her head. Put the head in a box with a note reading:

"Dear King Varian;
Welcome back! Sorry about that whole slave gladiator buisness we kinda put you through...our bad! Anywho, this crazy chick let a dreadlord run wild through one of our capitals and he's the one responsible for killing your homeboy. As you can see, Undercity will soon be "under new management" as they say, to make sure things like this don't happen again. Hopefully we can soon meet up in Kharazan for a spirited game of chess and put all this ugly buisness behind us.

Best wishes;
-Thrall "

Give said box to Jaina to deliver to King Wrynn. War avoided, new era of alliance/horde cooperation begins.

You forgot tea and cookies! A must have for peace!

[Empit]

ErikOO7 said:

I'm trying not to read any spoilers until I've seen this myself, but I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Can anyone tell me real quick how I can experience this in-game as both horde and alliance? Where do I start? Thanks

Most of what everyone is talking about can be learned by playing Warcraft 3 Reign of chaos and the expansion, Frozen Throne.

if you feel like reading books, the War of the ancients Trilogy has some information.

There's not too many significant quests that I recall ATM in WoW that would help you understand much.

[Brakkyn]

Nath said:

Nevermind that it was Aegwynn/Medivh who 'helped' Sargeras summon the orcs to Azeroth, nevermind that the Human/High Elf sorcery in Dalaran attracted him to that world again...

Sargeras first developed an interest in Azeroth because of the dabblings of the Highborne in arcane magic. Those elves were night elves, but after the War of the Ancients, those elves (the Highborne) migrated to the Eastern Kingdoms, where they invariably developed bad relations with the trolls, whom they warred with but could not defeat.

Enter the humans of Arathi, who taught 100 humans magic in return for aiding the elves in defeating the trolls. These humans eventually founded Dalaran.

So we can tie all of this back to the Highborne, who became high elves, many of which became blood elves, who were led by a king who's ultimate allegience turned out to be to Kil'jaeden--the right hand man of Sargeras.

Full circle.

This of course all occurs during the time when the guardian of magic, Malygos, is driven insane and can't police his aspect. Now we have to kill him, even though he's become sane...but that's another story.

Regardless, if the Horde didn't need 5 races to match the Alliance's 5 races, the Forsaken and the blood elves certainly wouldn't join the Horde. But, they had to develop story to make this happen, however illogical or improbable it may be. The Alliance has always been united by the "loathing of all things demonic", however far that goes.

[LostHero]

this

is

the

most

amazing

stuff

since

the

wc3 + tft

storryline

i' ve ever seen in a MMO.




i really hope that the alliance version of that questchain will be as epic as well.
this is just another evidence how much more work and effort blizzard put into WOTLK compared to TBC.
i never really liked TBC. the world, the lore, the setting, everything.
but Northrend will just kick ass.
i swear this will be the best "wow" we have ever seen.

better than World of Warcraft and MUCH better than World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade.

this is so amazing omg i just cant wait that 1,5 months until release.

[Nymrohd]

LostHero said:

this

is

the

most

amazing

stuff

since

the

wc3 + tft

storryline

i' ve ever seen in a MMO.




i really hope that the alliance version of that questchain will be as epic as well.
this is just another evidence how much more work and effort blizzard put into WOTLK compared to TBC.
i never really liked TBC. the world, the lore, the setting, everything.
but Northrend will just kick ass.
i swear this will be the best "wow" we have ever seen.

better than World of Warcraft and MUCH better than World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade.

this is so amazing omg i just cant wait that 1,5 months until release.

Truth be told this makes me sad at how much better WoW, both classic but especially TBC could have been if they knew what they know today. So many great storylines were pretty much trampled in TBC and after playing a couple of zones in the beta, you know how better it could have been:(

[Rysal]

...so what about new Forsaken characters? Do you really think they'd eliminate a whole race for the sake of a story? I always thought undead were just as popular as Orcs for characters.

...where would they start? Maybe in the same place, and once you hit Brill you realize there's some major BS going on, and join Sylvanas?

[Leviathonlx]

Rysal said:

...so what about new Forsaken characters? Do you really think they'd eliminate a whole race for the sake of a story? I always thought undead were just as popular as Orcs for characters.

...where would they start? Maybe in the same place, and once you hit Brill you realize there's some major BS going on, and join Sylvanas?

As has been said before. The Forsaken did not betray the Horde but rather a small faction inside the Forsaken (the Apothecary's lead by Varimathras) did.

[Rysal]

Yes I know that, as I had read the thread. However if UC is taken, there's a good chance that all of Tirisfall Glades is boned. So it leaves to question, where would new Forsaken PCs start? If the first area is taken by the Apothacary, and it changes to a high-level area (from the sounds of it), it's a very interesting question.

[Jinx16]

With the new phasing system I imagine UC will look normal to all new Forsaken characters. You will only see the "battle for undercity" event if you are on the quest.

[Zalmanusa]

Horde recaptures UC from the apothecary, the allies get ported back to Stormwind by Jaina.

[Germish]

I don't believe I saw this in the 4 pages of postings (Unless it was in a TLTR post), but how does this quest currently work? I saw someone said they believe you acquire this quest at 75, but for the whole Orgrimmar/Undercity battles and such are you telelported into a separate, instanced version of both cities? There's no way it could be in the original cities otherwise they would almost constantly be shut down with people flooding the quest. Not to mention, you might (Depending on how the lore goes exactly) have to see Verimathras(sp? Too lazy to correct) die and revive multiple times to allow people to kill him.

Can anyone answer those questions for me? It would be much appreciated. This definitely looks like an epic story quest chain. I'm hoping the ones in Northrend will be more Lore filled than TBC. Seemed like most of them were "There are demons here! Go kill them. They be pissin' us off!" "Omg! Get revenge on my husband's mistress!" (The latter of the two scenarios was quite entertaining however)

[Brakkyn]

Germish, this quest is an example of WoW's phasing technology. You see Undercity as something akin to an instance, and only people on the same phase of the quest you are on is in this same "instance".

For example, if you have not done this quest, Varimathras appears as normal in the game. After you complete the quest and go to Undercity, Varimathras will not be there, because to you, and in your version of the world, Varimathras is now "dead".

[Jeyl]

Leviathonlx said:

As has been said before. The Forsaken did not betray the Horde but rather a small faction inside the Forsaken (the Apothecary's lead by Varimathras) did.

Ya, and who was smart enough to let a Dread Lord like Varimathras live? Sylvanas. She gave him all he needed in order to orchestrate a come back. You may say Sylvanas had nothing to do with it, but given the nature on how these two are known to kill anything and anyone that just irritate them, she is more than an accessory to the crimes. She allowed this to happen and she wanted a new plague. And what does she do? She plays innocent.

http://new.worldofraids.com/public/style_emoticons/dark/http://www.worldofraids.com/forums/iPhorum/smilies/eek.gif

Oh no! Sylvanas was used! Varimathras betrayed her! Surely no one could see that coming! How could a demon be so, .. . . . . demonic?! Seriously, who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who lets a DREAD LORD take charge of certain areas in your domain?

You dang right I'd want her head after this.

[Germish]

Brakkyn said:

Germish, this quest is an example of WoW's phasing technology. You see Undercity as something akin to an instance, and only people on the same phase of the quest you are on is in this same "instance".

For example, if you have not done this quest, Varimathras appears as normal in the game. After you complete the quest and go to Undercity, Varimathras will not be there, because to you, and in your version of the world, Varimathras is now "dead".

Ah. That's quite interesting. So it's kinda like when you put on those goggles to make everyone pretty. If you wear them, you see the world as everyone is gnomes or whatever. Gotcha. Sounds pretty cool. But, you're never in an "instance" when you do the attack on Undercity and such, correct?

Glad to see Blizzard is innovating.