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Cataclysm Mastery System Preview

#1 User is offline   Kody Icon

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 08:15 PM

Following the Cataclysm Stat & System Change preview, we now have a preview of the Mastery system to give a bit more information on this new mechanic coming in Cataclysm!

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Quote from: Eyonix (Source)
Last week, we gave you an early look at the changes we’re making to the stat system in World of Warcraft: Cataclysm, and explained how these changes will ultimately provide players with more interesting gear choices and make stats easier to understand. Today we’d like to go into more detail about a brand-new feature that’s an integral part of this overhaul: the Mastery system, a set of new game mechanics designed to allow players to become better at what makes their chosen talent tree cool or unique. With this system, we want to accomplish three things: give players more freedom in how they allocate talent points, simplify some of the “kitchen sinky” talents that try to do too much at once, and add a new stat to high-level gear that makes you better at your chosen role.

Here’s how the system works: As you spend points in a given talent tree, you’ll receive three different passive bonuses specific to that tree. The first bonus will increase your damage, healing, or survivability, depending on the intended role of the tree. The second bonus will be related to a stat commonly found on gear desirable to you, such as Haste or Crit. The third bonus will be the most interesting, as it will provide an effect completely unique to that tree -- meaning there will be 30 different bonuses of this nature in the game. This third bonus is the one that will benefit from the Mastery rating found on high-level (level 80 to 85) gear.

One of our primary goals with Mastery is to give players more flexibility to choose fun or utility-oriented talents rather than make them feel obligated to pick up “mandatory” but uninteresting talents, such as passive damage or healing. (For examples of the kinds of powerful but boring talents we’re talking about, take a look at the talent tier just above the 51-point talent in many of the existing trees.) In a sense, Mastery makes it so every talent in (just for example) a rogue tree essentially has an invisible additional bullet point that says “…and increases your damage by X%.” This way, if you choose a talent like Elusiveness (which reduces your chance to be detected while stealthed) or Fleet Footed (which affects movement), you won’t feel like you’re giving up damage in exchange for utility.

There will still be talents that boost damage, of course, but those talents will also affect the way you play. For example, you can still expect to see talents like Improved Frostbolt, which reduces the cast time of the Frostbolt spell; it increases DPS, but it also affects the mage’s rotation. Piercing Ice, however, is just “6% more damage” and is the kind of talent we’re trying to eliminate by implementing the Mastery system.

As we get closer to Cataclysm’s release, we’ll go into more detail about the changes coming for each class, including individual talent-tree adjustments and how Mastery will affect them. In the meantime, here are a few examples to demonstrate the three kinds of passive bonuses we described above. Please keep in mind that we're still working on this system, and the handful of examples we're providing here are, of course, subject to change.

Holy Priest

For each talent point spent in the Holy tree, the priest also gets:

  • Healing – Improves your healing by X%.
  • Meditation – Improves your mana regeneration from Spirit in combat. This would likely replace the existing Meditation talent from the Discipline tree, which many Holy priests consider to be a “must-have.” Regeneration will also probably be determined by whether you are in or out of combat, and not the “five-second rule.
  • Radiance – Adds a heal-over-time effect to direct heals, such as Flash Heal. Mastery on gear would boost this bonus, and no other talent tree would grant it.


Discipline Priest

For each talent point spent in the Discipline tree, the priest also gets:

  • Healing – Improves your healing by X%.
  • Meditation – Improves your mana regeneration from Spirit in combat. This would likely replace the existing Meditation talent.
  • Absorption – Improves the amount of damage absorbed by spells such as Power Word: Shield and Divine Aegis. Mastery on gear would boost this bonus, and no other talent tree would grant it.


Frost Death Knight

For each talent point spent in the Frost tree, the death knight also gets:

  • Damage – Improves your melee and spell damage by X%.
  • Haste – Improves your melee Haste by Y%. This might allow us to remove some of the Haste in the Icy Talons line of talents.
  • Runic Power – Improves the rate of runic power generated by abilities. While all death knights want runic power, Frost death knights would generally have more runic power than Blood or Unholy death knights (who would receive a different benefit from their respective trees). An Unholy death knight who sub-specs into Frost would still be able to benefit from this bonus, though because they’re investing fewer talent points, they’d benefit to a smaller degree. Mastery on gear would boost this bonus, and no other talent tree would grant it.


A couple other things to note: Currently, we’re not planning to retrofit the Mastery stat onto current level-80 gear when we roll out the stat-system changes prior to Cataclysm’s release. However, Mastery will begin appearing on select quest and dungeon items. You will also gain a small amount of Mastery by wearing gear of your intended armor type (such as plate for paladins). For players with dual specs, when you change between your two chosen specs, the Mastery bonuses and the benefit you receive from the Mastery stat on gear will adjust automatically based on your new spec.

We’ll have more details to share about these and other changes we’re making in Cataclysm in the future, and we’ll do our best to answer your questions about the Mastery system here on the forums. For information on many of the stat changes being made in Cataclysm, please check out our earlier update at http://forums.worldo...425636414&sid=1.

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#2 User is offline   RuuddieBoy Icon

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 08:35 PM

I still don't understand anything of this Mastery system. If I understand right, the Mastery bonusses will basically be 'hidden talents' that get activated when you spend more points in a certain tree? Then why do they make it so complicated and not just show the talents but only in the higher tiers?
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#3 User is offline   01satkins Icon

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 08:43 PM

More points spent in Tree X grants more of the 3 stats that belong to that tree, e.g. 5 points in a tree might give you +3% healing, 10 points gives you +6% and so on. Which stats it is varies from tree to tree, and each tree will have one 'important stat', one 'cool stat' and one 'fun stat',
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#4 User is offline   Kody Icon

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 08:55 PM

View Post01satkins, on 08 March 2010 - 06:43 PM, said:

More points spent in Tree X grants more of the 3 stats that belong to that tree, e.g. 5 points in a tree might give you +3% healing, 10 points gives you +6% and so on. Which stats it is varies from tree to tree, and each tree will have one 'important stat', one 'cool stat' and one 'fun stat',


That's actually a very good description of it. :)
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#5 User is offline   RuuddieBoy Icon

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 10:08 PM

View Post01satkins, on 08 March 2010 - 09:43 PM, said:

More points spent in Tree X grants more of the 3 stats that belong to that tree, e.g. 5 points in a tree might give you +3% healing, 10 points gives you +6% and so on. Which stats it is varies from tree to tree, and each tree will have one 'important stat', one 'cool stat' and one 'fun stat',

Yes but how does this differ from the current system? Currently when I put 5 talentpoints in my +X% healing talent in that particular tree, I get the same thing. The only thing that's different now is that you'll get +X% healing, independant of if you choose the '-10% dmg taken' or the '+5% haste' talent; when using either one of the talents you'll get the extra +X% healing. At least, if I understand well.

If so, then theoretically it's nice to have some more flexibility, but in practice everyone will still use the same talentbuilds as some talents will still be more for PvP than PvE. So the masteries would just end up being 'hidden' and 'free' talents.
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#6 User is offline   fizyx Icon

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 10:28 PM

View PostRuuddieBoy, on 08 March 2010 - 10:08 PM, said:

Yes but how does this differ from the current system? Currently when I put 5 talentpoints in my +X% healing talent in that particular tree, I get the same thing. The only thing that's different now is that you'll get +X% healing, independant of if you choose the '-10% dmg taken' or the '+5% haste' talent; when using either one of the talents you'll get the extra +X% healing. At least, if I understand well.

If so, then theoretically it's nice to have some more flexibility, but in practice everyone will still use the same talentbuilds as some talents will still be more for PvP than PvE. So the masteries would just end up being 'hidden' and 'free' talents.


This is not strictly true now. There are a few specs where, once you've put all your critical points in, you have maybe 2-3 extra points to throw around in anything. The goal of the mastery system is to increase both the number of points you can throw in any one of several different areas, and to allow for talents that might not directly increase damage, but DO have an interesting effect, to be worth taking for a raiding build. Something like rogues Imp Sprint vs Endurance vs Imp kick springs to mind. All three are very nice, and useful in a wide variety of situations, but currently they're not worth taking because you give up too much damage.
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#7 User is offline   rappydoo21 Icon

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 10:49 PM

View PostRuuddieBoy, on 08 March 2010 - 10:08 PM, said:

Yes but how does this differ from the current system? Currently when I put 5 talentpoints in my +X% healing talent in that particular tree, I get the same thing. The only thing that's different now is that you'll get +X% healing, independant of if you choose the '-10% dmg taken' or the '+5% haste' talent; when using either one of the talents you'll get the extra +X% healing. At least, if I understand well.

If so, then theoretically it's nice to have some more flexibility, but in practice everyone will still use the same talentbuilds as some talents will still be more for PvP than PvE. So the masteries would just end up being 'hidden' and 'free' talents.


Exactly sir. Instead of you having to use 5 talent points to increase your (example) damage by 1/2/3/4/5%, you simple have to invest points in the tree and you will automatically get that bonus. Pretty much all talents will be something like this (without the description in Italic):

(Example again) Improved Slice and Dice: Increases the duration of your Slice and Dice ability by 25/50%, your damage by 1/2%, your hit by 0.2/0.4%, and your Armor Penetration by 0.2/0.4%.
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#8 User is offline   01satkins Icon

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 10:50 PM

View PostRuuddieBoy, on 08 March 2010 - 10:08 PM, said:

Yes but how does this differ from the current system? Currently when I put 5 talentpoints in my +X% healing talent in that particular tree, I get the same thing. The only thing that's different now is that you'll get +X% healing, independant of if you choose the '-10% dmg taken' or the '+5% haste' talent; when using either one of the talents you'll get the extra +X% healing. At least, if I understand well.

If so, then theoretically it's nice to have some more flexibility, but in practice everyone will still use the same talentbuilds as some talents will still be more for PvP than PvE. So the masteries would just end up being 'hidden' and 'free' talents.


there aren't any +healing talents, the stats are given automatically based on the number of points you spent in the tree, there won't be just +%healing talents anymore
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#9 User is offline   Xentropy Icon

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Posted 08 March 2010 - 11:17 PM

Yeah, functionally this just allows for far more interesting talents without requiring 5-page tooltips.

What I'm curious about is how they're going to reconcile these bonuses with a desire for more interesting builds than 0/71/0 (or 0/76/0 since we're talking Cataclysm here). For some classes, like healing priests, you might split points because two trees are both increasing your healing. But will all ret paladins and boomkins dump 76 points in one tree, since their other trees will increase healing or survivability and not damage? Even a diminishing returns feature past a certain point spend won't stop the minmaxers from eeking out that extra 0.1% damage instead of gaining 1% survivability. Maybe points past 51 won't add to the masteries of that tree at all. But then will it never be worth spending over 51?

That's the main design challenge of the Mastery concept that I'm waiting to see Blizzard's answer to.
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#10 User is offline   katuka Icon

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 12:34 AM

Looks nice - Now gogo show some for the rest of the classes!
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#11 User is offline   Arkham Icon

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 01:01 AM

View PostXentropy, on 08 March 2010 - 09:17 PM, said:

But will all ret paladins and boomkins dump 76 points in one tree, since their other trees will increase healing or survivability and not damage?

That does sound like it'll be a design challenge for the devs when it comes to PVE... but for PVP, yeah, I could definitely see rets and boomkins wanting survivability/healing bonuses. Especially survivability.
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#12 User is offline   Xentropy Icon

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 02:42 AM

Well that goes without saying, but PvP in this game has always felt like an afterthought (and mostly just exists to screw PvE balance from time to time), so my focus is on the meat of the game. They've already said they had to leave stam-to-other conversions out of reforging because otherwise every non-tank would convert half the stam on every item to their primary damage or healing stat, so I'm very interested in seeing how they avoid 76-in-one-tree builds for PvE now. As it is, paladins would be likely to put 76 points in each of their 3 trees for those roles, and I doubt Blizzard wants to see a lot of 0/76/0 builds out there in Cataclysm. If anything that would decrease the very choice these changes are meant to increase.

I'm very much looking forward to Cataclysm. It should be very interesting and fun to customize a truly custom character, instead of copy cookie-cutter build #2 and call it a day. Between talent trees based on utility rather than throughput (since masteries cover the throughput automatically), paths of the titans with more cool customization choices, and reforging, it should be far rarer to see two characters stated and talented exactly the same as one another, and yet see both be reasonably equally successful in their raids.
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#13 User is offline   Maroto Icon

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 11:27 AM

Seems pretty interesting so far, so im looking foward for more info on this new mastery system!
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#14 User is offline   chaos986 Icon

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 11:48 AM

View PostRuuddieBoy, on 08 March 2010 - 08:35 PM, said:

I still don't understand anything of this Mastery system. If I understand right, the Mastery bonusses will basically be 'hidden talents' that get activated when you spend more points in a certain tree? Then why do they make it so complicated and not just show the talents but only in the higher tiers?


If the trees still look like this:
Posted Image


The 3 mastery talents will still be shown at the bottom and as you invest in a tree the numbers go up, and as you get more mastery stat the 3rd number turns green to show the extra bonus added by the stat. You can also activate all 9 mastery talents if you wish but the amount of the bonus for the 2 sub-specs will be less then the main spec unless you have a 25/26/25 build.

So a Holy Priest can have both Radiance and Absorption by spending 5 talents in disc (for example), but the Radiance would convert 10% of their direct heal into the HoT while improving their shields by only 1%.
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