Debuff Limit, Blue Posts, Top 25 Patchwerk DPS Analysis

[WoRBot]

Daelo explains changes to the debuff limit in Wrath of the Lich King, a recap of blue posts, and an interesting analysis of the top DPS from each of the first 25 Patchwerk kills.

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[lora]

i just hope ulduar is not gona be a let down to the current easy mode instances and raids

[Endless]

That thread about comparing top dps, while having its interest, should have been ignored as soon as the thread maker mentioned "pure" and "hybrid", and anyone who still uses that as a justification of why a class should do more or less dps needs to shove it where the sun doesn't shine. Change of paradigm, get over it or die.

The thread now lists a top 51, and it has 6 warlocks, which is only a little more than what you'd get if all classes were equally represented. They're fine, really, yet the op implies they may be "op". There are even more warriors than warlocks, so op my aunt fanny. There are 11 mages, which is a bit high, but since there are more raid mages in my experience than retadins or spriests, it's not all too surprising. Even having so many hunters doesn't really surprise me, Blizzard stated countless times during beta that if anything, hunters were a little op.

No, what's telling is that there is no spriest at all on the list, no feral/moonkin druid, no ret paladins and no rogue. And only three shamans and one DK.

[AK47]

Interesting facts there and numbers. Would be nice to see such things for healing. Just to see how balance it is nowadays. *nods*

[koenigsegg]

EDIT: Read before typing. Guess it was just people in my guild that wasn't geared enough then. And /buhu on rogues. They should be nr.1 in that fight. At least if we should rely on the blue post that rogues are the nr.1 class on single target dps.

[Vysogota]

Originally Posted by koenigsegg

mages seems to be really crap at single target DPS atm

ROFL.

You didn't really bother looking at these Patchwerk charts, did you?

[Kanzentai]

Originally Posted by koenigsegg

And about "all players are not 80 yet". How do they count? Do they count TBC accounts aswell? Do they count all characters or based per account? To me it feels that most dinged 80 now. Those that ain't 80 yet in my guild are lvl 70 and are alts.

Different people, different amounts of time available to play, different levelling speeds.

Also, not everyone bought the expansion on the launch night (myself included) and have probably started levelling with a "slight" delay when compared to other people.

Northrend is quite enjoyable to play through and the "not 80 yet" crowd is probably still enjoying it as a levelling zone, among the other reasons I mentioned.

[AK47]

Originally Posted by koenigsegg

Correct me if I'm wrong. But warriors (arms and fury) and mages seems to be really crap at single target DPS atm, hunters probably nr.1? (raiding). But both of them are really good at AE (limited to 4/5 targets for warriors due to WW target limitation). But hunters, with their Volley are...imba?

I may not have a clue about this, this is only based on one guild and their players over two raiding days.

And about "all players are not 80 yet". How do they count? Do they count TBC accounts aswell? Do they count all characters or based per account? To me it feels that most dinged 80 now. Those that ain't 80 yet in my guild are lvl 70 and are alts.

You didn't read Patchwerk report did you .. ?

[Olizandri]

Very interesting to log on WoR and find that list having me listed as a top 25er and top dps DK, however that just makes me doubt the list, we have a rogue that steadily does a lot more damage than me on encounters like patchwerk, coming near top or top on some encounters, how a single rogue could not be on this list especially the one from my guild (we have 5 in there) is obviously showing how bad it is to take wws data, so many guilds not reporting etc, its just CRAP data.

Mind you it makes me wonder how much further i could be up there if i actually gave hysteria to myself not our dps warrior, and id never raided a melee dps class before that raid (hrhr), so cant contain my glee.

From our latest patchwerk, 5th was our rogue Dhem with 4834 dps, i was 10th with 4587 dps, i se nothing wrong with rogues, our mages were 3rd and 4th and our fury dps warriors topped it with 5705 dps (but he is without a doubt the best in the world) None of these classes are weak on dps, there are just bad players, (and i wont even try to believe im a good one)

Plus im betting other guilds have done better than us for sure.

http://wowwebstats.com/x6jkdpz2qea2y?s=264132-306902

Week in week out rogues are getting better, its a gear/skill issue.

[MysteryQuest]

If you check Patchwerk DPS records on WoWwebstats you see a lot of rogues on top of the list.

What is also suprising me is the super-scaling of Warriors. When you have some lvl 78 - 80 blues and some high-end lvl 70 epics like me, you don't get over 1500 DPS, but with a few lvl-80 epics you are on top of the list. I think they need to do some Warrior balancing. Right now I have better stats than all rogues in my guild, but my dps just hangs at 50% of their DPS. It's a bit crazy. I noticed this also at lvl 70, being the last on the DPS list all the time, but when I managed to get some high-end BoJ, T4/T5 and some Arena gear I was on top of the list all of a sudden with some people having better gear than me.

[MasterLoco]

I personally don't really understand where Blizzard is going with current DPS balancing, and I'm mainly thinking melee now. If a rogue can't manage to outdps any equal geared class on a purely static single target DPS encounter then why would anyone take any rogues at all?

I think atm single target Hybrid DPS overall is probably about right. Balance could use a small buff I guess, don't know about elemental shamans but I heard they're pretty awefull atm. Apart from that I think retr, enhance & shadow priests are doing about the same DPS single target.

What bothers me the most thou is hunters still doing 5.2k DPS while all other classes are doing between 4.4 & 4.6k DPS. Or shadowpriests now having the best AoE in game. Eventhou hybrids should be doing roughly the same DPS as any pure DPS class in game atm, they are definitely not supposed to outdps those pure DPS classes. If Hybrids are about 10% below the regular DPS classes on average it's fine. But it's obvious some classes/specs are currently doing way more dmg then they are supposed to do compared to others. Then again, nothing new there, especially not for hunters.

[Olizandri]

Originally Posted by MasterLoco

I personally don't really understand where Blizzard is going with current DPS balancing, and I'm mainly thinking melee now. If a rogue can't manage to outdps any equal geared class on a purely static single target DPS encounter then why would anyone take any rogues at all?

I think atm single target Hybrid DPS overall is probably about right. Balance could use a small buff I guess, don't know about elemental shamans but I heard they're pretty awefull atm. Apart from that I think retr, enhance & shadow priests are doing about the same DPS single target.

What bothers me the most thou is hunters still doing 5.2k DPS while all other classes are doing between 4.4 & 4.6k DPS. Or shadowpriests now having the best AoE in game. Eventhou hybrids should be doing roughly the same DPS as any pure DPS class in game atm, they are definitely not supposed to outdps those pure DPS classes. If Hybrids are about 10% below the regular DPS classes on average it's fine. But it's obvious some classes/specs are currently doing way more dmg then they are supposed to do compared to others. Then again, nothing new there, especially not for hunters.

Ive just produced a wws that shows rogues can do it just fine :P Hes topped numerous fights as well because hes gearing up with the right stuff and speccing the correct spec atm, id stick my neck out and say certain hybrids even need a small dps boost atm (elem shamans, boomkins and yes deathknights)

Rogues scale bloody well, give them gear and they boost it up there like no other class (beside fury warriors atm)

The class that really hasnt impressed me in the slightest is Ret Paladin though, not even worth bringing them.

[Archaik]

Hunters need a nerf, rogues a small buff.

[MasterLoco]

Originally Posted by Olizandri

id stick my neck out and say certain hybrids even need a small dps boost atm (elem shamans, boomkins and yes deathknights)

The class that really hasnt impressed me in the slightest is Ret Paladin though, not even worth bringing them.

How do Deathknights need a DPS boost? If anything they need a small nerf... blood is doing pretty sick dmg atm, both single target & AoE wise. On both aspects DK's are currently outperforming retr paladins at least...

And of course you bring a retr paladin: 3% crit, 2% raid dmg, 3% haste, an extra blessing, judgement of wisdom and replenishment. Yes, I am aware that at least some of these things can be covered by other classes but retr paladin dmg is quite good as it is right now. Looking at the top 25 reports for Patchwerk on WWS almost every guild is running with a retr paladin... have to say some of em are either under performing or just not properly geared for it but I very much doubt it gimps your raid if you bring one.

[elitenls]

I have a couple of issues here. Mainly, the people that quote WWS like it's the God damned end-all-be-all. Your 1, 2, 3 or even 4 WWS reports that show information are nothing compared to the internal data that Blizzard can pull with a simple query to their database. They can literally look at EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY DPS OUTPUT for a boss over ANY GIVEN TIME. You can't, end of discussion. If you base your opinion on that of a single WWS report, or a couple of reports, coming from one guild, two guilds, or even three or four ... you're wrong. This is LITERALLY picking up the news paper, and seeing that a bank was robbed, and the bank robber was black.

ALL BLACK PEOPLE MUST ROB BANKS, IT'S A FACT.

This is in fact NOT the case; as there are actually more white people that rob banks. LOL. Statistics are an amazing thing -- and they always change! It's all based on sample size for the data, and it's all relative to your ability to collect. The small sample size is bullshit compared to the 10+ million sample that Blizzard can pull with simple SQL. They're not stupid, they don't hate any single class, and they know what they're doing -- if they didn't, no one would play their game.

Besides, even if you did take the WWS shit as fact, the overall isn't too horribly wrong. No one class should come out on top every time -- 'cause, no two players are at the same skill level. If skill is the ultimate determining factor, there should be no #1 DPS class.