S1A1: Stamina - A Balanced Comparison

[Fuzzwobble]

There has been alot of controversy regarding which tanks may or may not be in a better sitation to perform their tasks.
To help the community gain some insight into the different styles of tanking, this series of articles will take steps to analyze the differences between the 4 respective classes in an attempt to distinguish their strengths and weaknesses.

The goal of this series is to point out the various inconsistencies which tanks currently deal with and how a tank could potentially work around them. Each article will also give recommendations as to how relevant the statistic or subject matter should be to what class.


Today's article is:
Stamina - A Balanced Comparison





For this analysis, we will avoid the highly insignificant differences between racial and class base hp, and will use a highly modified version of this formula:
Armor Base Stamina % x Class Modification

The formula will be complicated primarily due to the existance of Druid tanks.

While another effective method of measuring the worth of stamina to a class would be to simply give a health value per point of stamina, I've always found it to be flawed since it doesn't take current item levels into consideration.

Since plate items have the highest level of stamina, we will average the stamina value per spell or item slot around them. Offset items such as rings and trinkets will be brought into the equation for the sake of a proper percentage comparison.

Calculations will be based off of tier9 25 man heroic data, causing the base stamina representation to be rounded to 200. Gem slots and enchants will not be considered due to the existance of statistic balancing and different play styles.

Each item slot's plate-based stamina will be represented by a percentage of 100 and rounded up to a flat number for simplicity.

Rings, necks and cloaks will be represented by 50. Trinkets will be represented as 100, which is an approximate average between having 1 or 2 stamina trinkets equipped. Weapons will be represented as 100 for all classes since the combined stamina of a shield and a 1 handed tanking weapon will usually equal a feral Druid stave or Death Knight tanking weapon (or the closest thing to one).

After much research into statistics existing in current item level offset gear, the following two conclusions were made:
Bracers will be valued at 50 for plate and 25 for leather.
Belts and boots will be valued at 65 for plate and 35 for leather.

Since relics are varied in effect and can be considered relatively equal when compared to ranged weapons (once you balance out certain benefits such as avoidance value in an agility relic, uptime in a block value relic, passive tanking statistics on a gun, etc) we will refrain from including them in this article or any further installments.

Important: Classes with higher modifiers will benefit more from raid buffs. Due to this, a second formula and set of results will come into play which takes into account Prayer of Fortitude, stamina food, Blessing of Kings/Sanctuary and Mark of the Wild. Flask of Stoneblood will calculate after the effects as it does not scale.
Thanks for the reminder regarding the FoS, Katjia!

The total unbuffed stamina values will still reflect what I refer to as 'stance modifiers', such as Frost Presence or Dire Bear Form, but won't reflect most buffs which a player can cast upon others, such as Mark of the Wild.

For this formula I will consider Blessing of Sanctuary to be a stance modifier for Paladins, and will value it into both their unbuffed stamina and buffed stamina (remembering to disregard blessing of kings in the buffed stamina, since the stamina bonuses do not stack).
Death Knights will have 2 additional equations to reflect their prospective stamina values if they were talented into Veteran of the Third War.

Talented Prayer of Fortitude and Mark of the Wild will currently reflect 100 stamina value in total based upon their combined values compared to the base plate stamina.
Using the same method, Flask of Stoneblood will be represented by 65, and stamina food will be represented by 20.

Blessing of Kings/Sanctuary is calculated after other modifiers, but calculates in the same conditioning as certain modifiers, so it will be included in this formula.
However, Commanding Shout may or may not be used, depending upon circumstance, so it will not be factored in.





For notable modifiers which change base stamina as well as stamina from items, an additional amount of stamina value will be added. This stamina modification will be represented by 8 for Dire Bear Form, 2 for Frost Presence, and 3 for Kings/Sanctuary.

Remember: The Stamina Value that these formulae will represent is not equal to actual stamina, but rather represents a comparitive level for observation.

Formula for Unbuffed Stamina:
(Neck+Cloak+Ring1+Ring2+Trinket1+Weaponslots+Belt+Bracers+Boots) + ('gloveslotstam'/'baseplatestam'x100) + (last step repeated til all slots calculated) = BaseStam# x TalentModifier% x TalentModifier% etc = Unstanced Stamina x StanceModifier% + BaseStamInc = Unbuffed Stamina

Formula for Buffed Stamina:
(Neck+Cloak+Ring1+Ring2+Trinket1+Weaponslots+Belt+Bracers+Boots) + (Prayer+Mark+Food) + ('gloveslotstam'/'baseplatestam'x100) + (last step repeated til all slots calculated) = BaseStam# x TalentModifier% x TalentModifier% etc = Semi-buffed Stamina x (StanceModifier%+Blessing of Kings/Sanc) + (BaseStamInc + Flask) = Buffed Stamina


Now that you have a basic understanding of the method, here are the results-

Death Knight Unbuffed:
580+79+97+103+103+79= 1041x1.06+2= 1106 Stamina Value
Death Knight w/ Veteran of the Third War Unbuffed:
580+79+97+103+103+79= 1041x1.03= 1073x1.06+2= 1140 Stamina Value
Death Knight Buffed:
580+120+79+97+103+103+79= 1161x1.16+70= 1417 Stamina Value
Death Knight w/ Veteran of the Third War Buffed:
580+120+79+97+103+103+79= 1161x1.03= 1196x1.16+70= 1458 Stamina Value

Druid Unbuffed:
495+72+77+77+77+72= 870x1.02x1.06x1.1= 1035x1.25+8= 1302 Stamina Value
Druid Buffed:
495+120+72+77+77+77+72= 990x1.02x1.06x1.1= 1178x1.35+76= 1667 Stamina Value

Paladin Unbuffed:
580+79+97+103+103+79= 1041x1.08x1.06= 1192x1.1+3= 1315 Stamina Value
Paladin Buffed:
580+120+79+97+103+103+79= 1161x1.08x1.06= 1330x1.1+68= 1531 Stamina Value

Warrior Unbuffed:
580+79+97+103+103+79= 1041x1.06= 1104 Stamina Value
Warrior Buffed:
580+120+79+97+103+103+79= 1161x1.06= 1231x1.1+68= 1423 Stamina Value

Stamina Values:
Class = Unbuffed / Buffed
Death Knight = 1106 / 1417
Death Knight (VotTW) = 1140 / 1458
Druid = 1302 / 1667
Paladin = 1309 / 1531
Warrior = 1104 / 1423


What can we conclude from what we now know? Are these numbers justified?

SUMMARY PULLED FROM POST.

It originally existed to help tanks gain a grasp upon how much stamina each class should seek to attain, but to explain the points certain aspects of the classes had to be mentioned.

Since the points weren't relevant to the exact theory work displayed in this post, it caused alot of confusion.





That's it for article one.

In the next article in the series we will apply what we know and include the different classes' methods of mitigation to conclude effective health.

Stay tuned!

[Brachamul]

Did you take into account the DK's 2% extra health from the Gargoyle rune?

I understand your analysis, but i have trouble with your conclusions. You can't conclude that "paladins are a very powerful tank" simply from a health analysis. You will put forward in your later articles that paladins have low damage reduction (9%, as opposed to a Frost DK's 13%).

[Fuzzwobble]

Originally Posted by Brachamul

Did you take into account the DK's 2% extra health from the Gargoyle rune?

As a general rule I tried to avoid adding enchants and gem sockets into my theory work due to character preference, including runeforging.

There are many DKs around who use one-handed weapons or prefer swordshattering. Mostly unorthodox, but things would be boring if we were clones, no?

Originally Posted by Brachamul

I understand your analysis, but i have trouble with your conclusions. You can't conclude that "paladins are a very powerful tank" simply from a health analysis.

The notes at the bottom are not the final word, but can be considered to be more of a general summary of the class to explain the recommendations which are relevant (in this case, how much stamina to attain).
There will be a post released each week going deeper into the different tanking classes and their methodology.

Paladins happen to have very high avoidance considering their effective health and failsafe mechanisms, so I stand by my statement. Remember that this post is a lead-up to another which will explain and calculate effective health.

Originally Posted by Brachamul

as opposed to a Frost DK's 10%).

Fixed. =)
Frost Presence nerf, and any other DK will only have 8%.

[Brachamul]

Right, i was mixing it up with the stamina bonus.

Anyway, you really should consider the 2% stamina as a class thing, it's better than any other tanking enchants, and part of the class bonuses as a whole.

[Fuzzwobble]

The stamina bonus was changed as well. It was quite a large nerf, really.

While my personal tanking preference is to tank with that enchant using a slow 2 handed weapon, there are alot of Frost tanks out there who dual-wield. We must remember that Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle can only be applied to 2 handed weapons at this time.

There are also many Death Knights who have their defense cap without a weapon equipped who choose Rune of Swordshattering for the additional 4% parry.

At the same time I can understand why you would want the stamina increase to be taken into consideration, but if we took the Runeforge into account we would have to take all the alternative enchants into account when we calculate other methods of mitigation in later articles, and that's just not fair on the tanking community as a whole.

For those who would want to know their stamina after applying the Runeforge, simply change the formula so that it multiplies by an additional 0.02% where the total StanceModifier% takes place.

[zeroflow]

great article...but it looks like you got a favor on cats

[Darkroncow]

I so cannot agree with you on you theory around DK tanking that it almost painfully failed.
I've been tanking whole TBC on my druid and since day 1 of wotlk I've been playing and later on tanking on my DK. I've done all specs you can have, 2H and then DW (till the nerf) and back to 2H again.
I'm tanking with blood spec and yes...I could have slightly more avoidance but I'm not far behind anyone. I have almost pure sta gems (exception is the 1 gem to activate my meta).
I always been MT for my guild and I have tanked everything 10/25 in uld included yogg, totc 10/25.
I can tell you there is no problem with my TPS, there is no problem with my survival since usually I'm not the first one to die...not even the first tank to die. 90% of the time holding agro is np at all and the remaining 10% can be covered up by experience and good reflex.
So calling DK to weakest tank class atm is a bit too hard, imo.

[Winterwind]

He did not say it is impossible to tank as a DK, merely inferior to the other classes.

From this, you can take the meaning that if you were one of the other tank classes in gear the same level you're currently wearing, with the same time given for practicing tanking on that char as you've had on your DK: you would, theoretically, be a better tank.

It's more the player's skills as opposed to their class and items that dictate how good a tank is.

[gasms]

The truth might hurt sometimes Darkroncow, your personal experiences dont make that great of an arguement because we all know that ALL the tank classes can tank all content and that depending on what patch we are on some are a little weaker and some a little stronger.

Aside from that-
Brachamul "You will put forward in your later articles that paladins have low damage reduction (9%, as opposed to a Frost DK's 13%). "

I think that if your asking to include the 2% hp from your runeforging than you should also keep in mind the 3% damage reduction protection paladins get from our Glyph of Divine Plea. Putting us only 1% behind according to your 9% to 13% analysis. A 1% which most likely will be overcome by the armor on the shields that paladins wear and death knights don't.

[Brachamul]

Originally Posted by Winterwind

He did not say it is impossible to tank as a DK, merely inferior to the other classes.

That's what I disagree with. Plenty of cases we survive better than other classes. Our CD's are just crazy. On an encounter like Gormok Heroic, we're constantly under Vampiric Blood. Our Anti-Magic Shield is useful on almost every encounter, and has a 1min CD. Then there's still Icebound Fortitude every 2 minutes, Rune Tap every 30 seconds and Army of the Dead every 20 (down to 10 next patch.

As mentionned in the post, the reactivity of the Death Knight is unchallenged by any other tank, through our CDs and our healing capabilities. That's why I use my DK over my Druid and Warrior.

Also as i mentionned before, though i understand that the OP may disagree and i'm not asking him to change his post :

- Blood Knights have +11% stamina (Veteran of the Third War, Frost Presence, Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle).
- Paladins have +14% stamina (Sacred Duty and Combat Expertise)

- Blood Knights have -13% damage taken (Frost Presence, Blade .Barrier).
- Paladins have only -9% damage taken.

- Blood Knights have 5% dodge (Anticipation)
- Paladins have 5% dodge (Anticipation)

- Blood Knights have 25% of their strength value converted to Parry Rating (Forceful Deflection).
- Paladins have 5% parry (Deflection).


So my own personal conclusion is that from base stats, Paladin and DK are equal, though the DK has a slight advantage.

What really differenciates them is on one hand the Death Knight's cooldowns and healing capabilities, and on the other hand the Paladin's block ability and Ardent Defender talent.

[Vkandis]

Originally Posted by Brachamul

Did you take into account the DK's 2% extra health from the Gargoyle rune?

I understand your analysis, but i have trouble with your conclusions. You can't conclude that "paladins are a very powerful tank" simply from a health analysis. You will put forward in your later articles that paladins have low damage reduction (9%, as opposed to a Frost DK's 13%).

Paladins, if tanking should be running the divine plea glyph, giving them an additional 3% mitigation across the board (bringing it to 12%) as long as they are actively meleeing an enemy (or even a critter to extend the duration again, heh). The allowance of so much stamina *and* the existence of the get-out-of-death-free card created by Ardent Defender allows paladins the opportunity to focus on avoidance and threat generation.

[Brachamul]

Originally Posted by gasms

I think that if your asking to include the 2% hp from your runeforging than you should also keep in mind the 3% damage reduction protection paladins get from our Glyph of Divine Plea. Putting us only 1% behind according to your 9% to 13% analysis. A 1% which most likely will be overcome by the armor on the shields that paladins wear and death knights don't.

I thought the glyph of Divine Plea didn't stack with a Priest's raidwide 3% damage reduction?

And finally, Death Knights have a +60% armor you know? That equates to exacly as much armor as a shield if i'm not mistaken.

[Vkandis]

Originally Posted by Brachamul

I thought the glyph of Divine Plea didn't stack with a Priest's raidwide 3% damage reduction?

And finally, Death Knights have a +60% armor you know? That equates to exacly as much armor as a shield if i'm not mistaken.

Glyph of Divine Plea stacks with all, also allowing the paladin an effectively bottomless manapool (as they are gaining several hundred back every 3 seconds in addition to BoS avoidance proc and spiritual attunment). The 3% mitigation offered by Blessing of Sanctuary is what does not stack.

[jericho]

Let me start out with saying that the article is an interesting read. You make a few decent comparisons along the way and your numbers are quite interesting when it comes down to pure stamina potential of each class.

However, you can not make conclusions such as yours in a vacuum. As someone said before me, your statement that Paladins are very powerful tanks at this time is true, but it is not because of pure stamina. Your conclusions in general may have quite a bit of truth to them, but honestly in an essay about Stamina none of them have any merit. You have not supported any of your statements save for giving us base numbers buffed and unbuffed. I see where you were intending to go, but you took a huge tangent in the end.

This is specifically why any discussion on Stamina in general needs to be a part of an overall discussion on effective health. In the end no tank really should be caring about how much stamina they have, they should care how much EH and avoidance they have. To perpetuate the "tank A has more HP than tank B, tank A must be the better tank" fallacy is unconscionable on the front page of a site like WoR. While your end conclusions that Paladins are great, Druids are good and Warriors and DKs are bringing up the back end of tanking at this time are dead on, the pure Stamina numbers you have provided do not support your argument by themselves. Interjecting things you believe are widely known about the EH, Threat, and overall talent/abilities of the classes does nothing to actually prove your conclusions.

You obviously have the drive and ability to crunch the numbers and look deeper into the situation we currently have with tanking. I am looking forward to seeing a more indepth look at the classes and EH/Avoidance and even the effects of such self healing and incoming healing% talents that Paladin and DKs both have. We definitely need more well thought out conversations about tanking mechanics and class differences (both good and bad) on the major WoW sites with Cataclysm coming soon. Blizzard needs to know we are not happy currently and why.

[Vkandis]

Originally Posted by jericho

This is specifically why any discussion on Stamina in general needs to be a part of an overall discussion on effective health. In the end no tank really should be caring about how much stamina they have, they should care how much EH and avoidance they have. To perpetuate the "tank A has more HP than tank B, tank A must be the better tank" fallacy is unconscionable on the front page of a site like WoR.

Very, very true. I have known many tanks simply believing that the largest health pool means the best tank, however even Blizzard has admitted that the level of avoidance capable means that they are creating bosses that can effectively 2shot even the highest stam-geared tank, making focus on stamina alone an exercise in insanity. It is *very* important that a tank be able to not only react to the boss, but react to the raid, using cooldowns, items, and movement where needed to minimize damage both on himself and, where possible, on others.

I am interested to see where this discussion leads to, but the simple focus on stamina is not enough of a determinant of tanking capability. It is merely a precursor to the abilities offered by the class (in other words, paladin tanks are easier to faceroll than others).