RNG based abilities introducing Reactive Dynamic Rotations

[ShyneeThings]

Well, one of the more exciting things I've experienced in WotLK thus far is Blizz's attempts at making certain classes a little more dynamic in terms of dps rotations. Gone are the days of spamming 1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-1-2-1... without ever varying that order/timing. However this whole movement in play styles has sparked a lot of debate on various forums, so let's see what you have to say!

With the focus of incorporating RNG-based spells/effects that require a subsequent reaction, such as a moonkin's eclipse proc, there's now room for choices and slight variety in timing and rotations. Waiting for a certain effect or event to occur and reacting to that with an appropriate ability has made DPS rotations renewed, in a sense.

However, every story has another tale to tell, and this one is no exception. The downside seems to be an inconsistency in DPS you are able to maintain from week to week. One week you may get early procs at all the right times, and see a significant boost in your performance; the next week, nothing wants to proc at the right time, and now you are just above the tanks.

My questions to you all are...

0) What class and spec are you currently playing
1) Have you enjoyed this new element of reactive/varied spell rotations?
2) How do you feel about the downside of reactions based on RNG triggers? Does it personally present a challenge to you?
3) Would you rework anything about how the current DPS is based on RNG? What/how?
4) Are there other future solutions Blizz could pursue for continued dynamic play styles? (i.e. what would make DPS more fun/interesting/challenging for you)

Tell it like it is, and share your experiences!

[lethalnl]

as a deathknight frost tank i see myself waiting for KM proccs when i have no RP and 1 set of runes, it that aspect i wait for something random
its something fun when it happens when you want it to, but ive had entire fights where it would procc just when im about to do icy touch for example, which is frustrating

i dont think they should change it however, it adds something to it, flattening it with a strait amount of crit would be boring

and what blizz should add.....well something like a damage increase combo thingy
what im imagining here is like, you've got a procc that increases your damage when you do a certain move
this stacks to some degree, so if you have enough skill to tap the button quick enough you get a good benefit
it keeps doing this till a point where you will get trouble with the timer, then if you fail you drop down 3 levels or so and have to start from there again

[gorby]

as a deathknight frost tank i see myself waiting for KM proccs when i have no RP and 1 set of runes, it that aspect i wait for something random
its something fun when it happens when you want it to, but ive had entire fights where it would procc just when im about to do icy touch for example, which is frustrating

i dont think they should change it however, it adds something to it, flattening it with a strait amount of crit would be boring

and what blizz should add.....well something like a damage increase combo thingy
what im imagining here is like, you've got a procc that increases your damage when you do a certain move
this stacks to some degree, so if you have enough skill to tap the button quick enough you get a good benefit
it keeps doing this till a point where you will get trouble with the timer, then if you fail you drop down 3 levels or so and have to start from there again

Thats a really cool idea imo :)

As a healer im not sure the comparison is so direct as obviously you dont always need you MAX HPS heal or w/e. But for some situations i find myself trying to keep tidalwaves up constantly, sometimes this might mean a chain heal or riptide where a lhw might have been better but it ofc enables you to react to the next big peice of direct damage much faster.
As an elle shammy I like it how the perfect "rotation" can change according to how much haste you have - can I squeeze and extra CL / LB in b4 my next LvB?"

Proc watching or reacting to some other casting mechanic are good things imo. IF you increase whats expected of players in terms of dexterity it generally makes them better players - but that's only if they truly understand it. Muscle memory takes much longer to program if your reacting to the wrong things. IF you dont get your perfect BL rotation during something like patch then there's no way your going to on a more complicated encounter that requires u to respond to a lot more environmental elements.

[Crathos]

Awesome thread :)

0) What class and spec are you currently playing: I'm currently playing a Druid Moonkin.

1) Have you enjoyed this new element of reactive/varied spell rotations? The new reactive and varied rotations, in my opinion, are awesome. It brings a new form of excitement to the game as dps, because, as you stated before, it's not just spamming one button. As a moonkin I've seen my dps exceed my expectations for this xpac, mostly because it actually takes a certain amount skill to be effective. If you're a good player, you will be able to use these changes to your benefit.

2) How do you feel about the downside of reactions based on RNG triggers? Does it personally present a challenge to you? Honestly, the only challenge as a moonkin is when your goddamn starfire eclipse won't proc, since the chance is only 60% per wrath crit. Very rarely does this happen, however. But again, if you are a good player, you will know that you can NOT gear towards a reactive proc, since it is not 100% reliable. This makes it more fun, since you need different rotations depending on whether you get a proc or not :).

3) Would you rework anything about how the current DPS is based on RNG? What/how? For my class, I feel that it works quite well, and I know I've seen blizzard state that they love the way moonkin dps works. It's an awesome addition to DPS, and acts as a huge potential dps boost. Also, it's more fun.

4) Are there other future solutions Blizz could pursue for continued dynamic play styles? (i.e. what would make DPS more fun/interesting/challenging for you) If blizzard threw reactive spells to every dps spec, everything would get kinda lame. The idea is fantastic, but they need to utilize in different ways; which means they need to show a bit of ingenuity. I'll be honest and say that as far as spell dps goes I really only know a lot about moonkins, as that's all I've raided as so far (Mage is at 76), but I look forward to seeing what changes they add for the classes.

[Babagahnoush]

As a retribution paladin, I wish I had some sort of proc or spell that triggered another effect. Right now I'm staring at 4-6 short cooldowns and making sure they are used. The only issues of keeping maximum DPS is when there is some sort of conflict resolution: Judgement and Crusader Strike have ended their cooldown at the same time, use Judgement first is an example.

I thought they would do something cool at the top of the holy tree with the changes of exorcism such as a 5 point talent that your judgements 10/.../50% chance to refresh your exorcism cooldown. A PvP holy paladin could take this and become slightly more offensive, and a retribution paladin could have something interesting to worry about while DPSing rather than making sure you slam numbers 1-4 whenever they are off of cooldown.

I don't know what Blizzard has in mind for retribution. I commend them on making it a viable raid DPS spec, but it seems they just keep making tweaks to the percentage damage our spells do. This is seen by their damage increase on Divine Storm and a talent that increases our Crusader Strike and Exorcism spell damage.

While at its very basic sense, ever class has some feeling of just keeping your top 4 spells on cooldown, I just feel like I am the epitome of this scenario as a retribution paladin.

On the flipside, the retribution paladin is getting some cool flexibility by going down other trees to get some fun utility. Probably more than my two cents worth, but this has been a nagging topic of mine.

[forgedkoala]

i play a fire mage, (arcane fire, not FFB), and i love how my rotations work for the most part and all the RNG stuff, i think its great. however, the frustrating part is when you're running heroics with guildies the day after a raid and they get confused when i may only do 2500 dps on a boss, (as opposed to the 3k-4k range on a raid boss). fire mages' dps is based in large part on crit strings, and when that doesnt happen, we dont do killer dps. aside from having the consciousness of mind to hit pyroblast when you crit twice in a row, there isnt much room for skill in a mages dps in my personal opinion. i think if mages had more RNG abilities then that would test our reaction/skill more and allow us to shine instead of be in the hands of the crit gods

[saxxon]

i play mainly as a ret pally, but i play as tank and holy too, but i enjoy ret alot more since the expansion. as a paladin, the only procwe have is art of war, and tagging that with flash of light while using seal of blood is about the most reactive it gets, a pally needs to keep himself alive to take ease of the healers. with command, i am usually around spot 12 in dps on 25 man raids, but use blood and i usually at spot 5. it is pretty much a faceroll of 1-4 and maybe consecrate. to be honest it would be nice to get some other special ability for ret pallies as a rng proc to allow us to do something special. i mean warriors have all kinds of abilities and utilities and other good procs, and dk's they have rng and cd abilities off the wall, i am not really sure what i would give pallies, but since dps is getting homogenized something special other than a 2-3 minute cd burst spike. something that would give pallies something to work with. i mean pallies are already mana strapped and we are getting a new spell to work with on a budget, and i dont know about you, but unless i get mana from SA, i do run out of mana often on boss fights spamming divine plea and slamming JotW as soon as its on CD, its already a challenge to play with the mana pool we have right now.

[ShyneeThings]

i like some of the community's suggestions for the future. :) very interesting, and keep em coming!

[Borgoth]

0) What class and spec are you currently playing
1) Have you enjoyed this new element of reactive/varied spell rotations?
2) How do you feel about the downside of reactions based on RNG triggers? Does it personally present a challenge to you?
3) Would you rework anything about how the current DPS is based on RNG? What/how?
4) Are there other future solutions Blizz could pursue for continued dynamic play styles? (i.e. what would make DPS more fun/interesting/challenging for you)

Tell it like it is, and share your experiences!

0) Arcane mage.
1) Ever since Blizzard nerfed Arcane Barrage, Arcane rotation is simply AB AB AB AM. No reactivity, no variance apart from burning cooldowns. And not even using the 'overpowered' Barrage. Boring. Loved the earlier rotation that included Arcane Barrage and reacting to Missile Barrage procs.
2) I love reaction based rotations triggered by RNG. Seems I'll have to spec fire to get that.
3) Obviously would buff ABarr so it'd be useful again and return reactive gameplay. Turn it into Explosive Shot for example.
4) More powerful abilities with short cooldowns (5-15sec) forcing a more challenging rotation with more abilities overall.

[m00ndust]

0) What class and spec are you currently playing

Arms Warrior (Orc, 80)
Affliction Warlock (Orc, 71)
Elemental Shaman (Orc, 53)
Blood Death Knight (Orc, 61)

1) Have you enjoyed this new element of reactive/varied spell rotations?

With Thirst for Blood and Sudden Death, actually makes dps fun but I'm too dependant on RNG

Nice balance of Procs (Nightfall, Erradication...) which don't happen that often but actually are nice to have.

Elemental Focus and Elemental Oath are awesome but Crit based instead of RNG. So, I crank Crit up and I'm virtually always under the influence of those procs.

Death Coil is gonna go off on it's own now, no longer need to actually click it when it procs.

2) How do you feel about the downside of reactions based on RNG triggers? Does it personally present a challenge to you?

The only downside of those reactions would be if you couldn't/wouldn't use them for situationnal reasons. (Mob has a Thorn mechanic, Spell reflect, Immunity) but didn't have much of a choice to.

3) Would you rework anything about how the current DPS is based on RNG? What/how?

Proc per minute would make much more sense than % proc. It would balance dps easier and actually not get dps spikes / holes where you'd aggro by total accident or simply not hold enough dps.

4) Are there other future solutions Blizz could pursue for continued dynamic play styles? (i.e. what would make DPS more fun/interesting/challenging for you)

I actually enjoy very much the passive debuffs put on targets. (Deep Wounds, Blood Frenzy. Trauma) and Passive buffs too (Might of Mograine, Auras)

These things could become effects like this (example of my own) Let's say Warlock puts a "Curse of Blood" on his target... Target would allow melee to put a bleeding effect on that target simply by hitting him and Bleeding effect would stack (i.e. max stack would do similar damage than Curse of Agony... but Trauma would actually improve that bleeding effect damage...)

That example would be a perfect "pseudo-dynamic" way of making class interact on debuff/buff/dps strategies.

[Mian]

0) What class and spec are you currently playing
1) Have you enjoyed this new element of reactive/varied spell rotations?
2) How do you feel about the downside of reactions based on RNG triggers? Does it personally present a challenge to you?
3) Would you rework anything about how the current DPS is based on RNG? What/how?
4) Are there other future solutions Blizz could pursue for continued dynamic play styles? (i.e. what would make DPS more fun/interesting/challenging for you)

Tell it like it is, and share your experiences!

0) Elemental Shaman 57/14/0

1) like above posters have mentioned, it pretty much is crit oriented, elemental shamans have no problem stackin crit in hilarious amounts, so elemental oath and clearcasting are pretty much up all the time in raids or heroics;
so while it doesnt really feel very dynamic, it sure is MUCH better than it used to be, now with glyph of fireshock its keeping Lavaburst on CD while pushing as many LB as possible while keeping Fireshock on the target, better than the old boring rotations

2)Can t really comment on that since ELE s are pretty much crit oriented; or did I missunderstand something?

3)I like the improvement, but I feel there s more room for individuality of skill, work something in that requires timing e.g. , like other classes a % or ppm proc through talents that makes things a little interesting, don t have a suggestion tho

4)still thinking about that ;)

[lethalnl]

ive got another one btw

lets say you have 4 ability's

you use ability 1, which is your main nuke
it has a 50% chance to procc a big damage boost for ability's 2, 3 and 4
it does this randomly, so the 50% proccs for 2, you have to fire a 2 asap to clear the procc again

only trouble is see here is that if you want to use the procc right away you wont be able to keep casting 100% of the time, making this more suitable for melee