WotLK Warlock Specs: Is there still hope?

[sigma7777]

I'm guessing that alot of Warlock players, the ones who can say they are knowledgable with their class, have already looked up and seen the specs for the expansion. I'm going to be honest and say that I was not here before 2.0 came out, so I have always known the Warlock to be what it is for both Raiding and PvP. A wannabe-ish mage and sl/sl. Affliction has always been more fun and all around more interesting of a class IMO, but Raiding demands damage and Destruction is the only way to go in most cases. I am looking to hear people's opinions on how the new talent trees are looking and whether or not Affliction can be used as a viable Raiding spec. I am scared from what i have seen that Destruction looks to be the Raiding spec with the new end talent Chaos Bolt. But, I might be wrong. And hopefully I am. I am really just looking for feedback on the new trees to see if people still think the Warlock should be taken out or whether we still have a chance to be our own class.

[Svad]

Locks usually out dps mages, so im guessing the "wanna be mage" should be reversed somehow.

Locks are fine, you do well in both PVP and PVE.

Mages needs a boost somehow, and its not a boost as in "make better cookies"

[Felrass]

It true that in TBC high end raiding favor destruction for the damaged required to be useful there. At some point affliction really starts to loose its power, and demonology is useful (was for me at least) for the extra spell power + crit until i got decent gear for deep destruction. As for the new talants i really hope we will see more diverse locks. Affliction looks promosing with even more rapid dots renewal and reapplication of dots which will give time to pop a little burst damage in between, and i really am looking for the new demonology talants for it seems you become more group friendly buffer and will make the groups want you... at least in 5 mans and i hope for raiding too as ranged dps buffer.

[kaib]

affliction locks get very good new high tier talents to make up for their sucky dps. Most other classes get pvp or not-so-good stuff there. Both haunt and the proc-haste talent seem to be designed to make up for dots not being able to crit.

In general I would guess that the era of 3-5 locks per raids will be over, but that was rather silly anyway. It seems very doubtful that any guild will ever raid with less then 2 locks, if they have the choice. But the demonsac/destro times are most likely just over. Both bloodpact and the 3%spirit/3%int buff from felpuppy are something you really want to have for 25 men raids, along with CoE and CoR.
My guess is that one full affliction warlock with felhunter and one fire destro with imp out will work well, with additional warlocks being some form of destro/demon spec.

Warlocks were meant to be a utility class with raid buffs, debuffs and soulstone/healthstone. Seems like after the TBC fuckup we are heading there again, I don't mind that really.

[Awelyn]

Locks dominance in raid dps was a fluke/mistake by Blizzard that resulted because they did not forsee the ridiculous scaling destro locks got out of demo sac/deep destruction. Late TBC shouldn't have been that way, but that is in the past and Blizzard is hopefully (and appears to be) rectifying the situation in WOTLK. Granted, this is coming from an embittered mage, although personally I never made it far enough in the raiding game to actually start losing raid spots to locks.

As for affliction, I think that it will be able to hold its own in raiding finally. Granted, its never going to be as good on trash, but who cares about trash anyway? Affliction truly shines on the boss fights that require mobility.

[Kristen]

It seems very doubtful that any guild will ever raid with less then 2 locks, if they have the choice. But the demonsac/destro times are most likely just over. Both bloodpact and the 3%spirit/3%int buff from felpuppy are something you really want to have for 25 men raids, along with CoE and CoR.
My guess is that one full affliction warlock with felhunter and one fire destro with imp out will work well, with additional warlocks being some form of destro/demon spec.

Warlocks were meant to be a utility class with raid buffs, debuffs and soulstone/healthstone. Seems like after the TBC fuckup we are heading there again, I don't mind that really.

as it stands i see no reason for there to even be 1 lock in a raid since the list of what buffs no longer stack and what no longer benifit others i see it like this:

1. druids give 13% extra damage and does not stack with CoE.

2. the 3% int 3% sprit felpup buff doesnt stack with spirit or arcane intel buffs so unless you have around 2000 intel and spirit this new group buff is pointless and also has a small range.

3. blood pact doesnt stack with commanding shout and with might and battle shout no longer stacking chances are there will be a warrior free to give this.

4. the improved shadow bolt debuff only affects yourself meaning that 2-3 locks can no longer keep it consta up and shadow priests do not benifit from it.

5. curse or recklessness doesnt stack with farie fire.

Couple this with fire and affliction really needing you to use your pet which means you take a huge DPS hit from not having demonic sacrafice also improved shadow bolt has had 5% taken from it and we no longer benifit from the shadow priests extra shadow damage i currently do not see any reason to bring warlocks to a raid so far in wrath.

however most class's still have alot of work to do on them and i cross my fingers warlocks will get abit of love soon i also hope that love goes towards a sm/ruin style spec using the fel hunter so locks actually have to work for our damage again rather than spamming shadow bolt.

[lethalnl]

we did get a blue post about 2 days ago, just before the latest build...we'd get a look at

i sure as hell hope we get some candy, since im seriously considering just to knock my hunter or DK to max lvl when it hits and retire my lock

the only specc i see helpfull atm is 0/50/21, the rest doesnt have anything unique at all

i personally oppose the new system, it takes away the distinction of classes, just a cheap way for blizz to be able to ignore pve for a while

[Hybr1d]

Making it too casual destroying some classes yes. I'm still liking sacri/destruction though, but fire destruction. +10% fire damage > imp out?

[lethalnl]

i dont think so...if you look at what the little sucker can do atm (he crits = you crit = more then double critrate in the end)

[Vadok]

There is no hope at all, beta is over, and Blizzard finalized balancing all classes.
Oh wait.

[Elgarta]

Aside from the ISB change, we can still get utility up if there are no moonkins. Just because another class or two can do some of our tricks, it doesn't mean they won't be needed.

Besides, if we scrap utility, doesn't that say that we can go for a max-dps build and let the moonkins take care of the rest of it? It's opening up more options in a group/raid environment. I wouldn't go getting too upset, people have only just started clearing Naxx. Don't go giving up hope just yet!

[Ogre]

Also give it some time. When BC first started locks weren't all SL/SL or Dest, the greater portion of powerful locks when it was only Kara/TK/SSC were all Aff. Once gear scaled crit higher Aff started to fall real behind. Things will align, give it a little bit first.

[Illuminated]

Pre-bc I raided hardcore, I played a Destro lock I loved it I itemized differently, more mage-ishy, I took a lot of crit, and alot of hit....I'd pull top 7 in DPS on a good day... In BC I played a Destro lock..... I hate Sacrifice/Shadow and Flame.... but it does good DPS....
In Wotlk, I'd love to play Destro..... but the way I see see it.....Affliction/Affliction Hybrids=God

This is all opinion and I am the self-proclaimed worst warlock in the world
but lets me explain my thinking

(REFERENCE http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=IcxrbzrAoVA00sxZE0hVM0z)
Ok, right here we have 35% more shadow damage (CoS[Malediction/other classes add 3% more then CoS], IMP Shadowbolt, and Shadow mastery) which is a size-able chunk, every DoT damage Talent except Haunt, and imp CoA (tweakable), 5% Destro crit, 100% more Destro Crit Damage, and a Haste Proc that rivals the one in Deep Destro, and DoTs that crit lolol

Also, I am sure we have all read the post about maybe Devastation moving places with Ruin which would a little more obvious of a build to me.... Grab Haunt, Grab Ruin then fill out Affliction a little more or maybe grab some tier 1 Demo talents maybe Intensity maybe? Who knows?
But unless that tiny imp is going to put out some serious Damage, or Chaos Bolt gets buffed with major damage and a special Co-effcient maybe, I can't see full destro Competing.

sacrifice builds....lol nuff said

Full demo seems a little to situational for me but it might be competition, again all speculation Opinions and my personal Bias

but thats the way I see PvE locks (My reference build is subject to minor tweaking), now PvP thats a different story, and I will not assumptions, or create theories for the single fact that PvP has so many variables that speculation is completly pointless untill everything is finalized tested and we have solid numbers to work with

I hope maybe I've brought you back some faith in the affliction spec... myself if I continue to be bad, and destro doesn't get alot of love I will be a SAAAAAAAAAAAD PANDA

[Elgarta]

Hmm, I am not sure if your reference talent build would be the most idea. Without haunt, you will see a big dps decrease as affliction. The bonus the debuff gives is really good. Your other point placements and reasoning does seem good though, so I think you know enough to at least learn if needed :P

Personally, the spec I am looking at, which could also be bad, I don't claim to be a brilliant warlock or anything, is this :)

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=IfxMbzrAoiAo0stZi0hV

It leaves 2 points free, which can go into Destro reach, imp drain soul, Death's Embrace (lol) or whatever, depending on threat in wotlk, and whether they actually fix DE to be useful.

I'm all about affliction. Went destro for the end of BT and beginning of Sunwell and detested it.. so being able to be viable, and enjoy my class that little bit more will be great :D

[Illuminated]

Hmm, I am not sure if your reference talent build would be the most idea. Without haunt, you will see a big dps decrease as affliction. The bonus the debuff gives is really good. Your other point placements and reasoning does seem good though, so I think you know enough to at least learn if needed :P

Personally, the spec I am looking at, which could also be bad, I don't claim to be a brilliant warlock or anything, is this :)

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=IfxMbzrAoiAo0stZi0hV

It leaves 2 points free, which can go into Destro reach, imp drain soul, Death's Embrace (lol) or whatever, depending on threat in wotlk, and whether they actually fix DE to be useful.

I'm all about affliction. Went destro for the end of BT and beginning of Sunwell and detested it.. so being able to be viable, and enjoy my class that little bit more will be great :D

I think the topic of Ruin vs. Haunt is debatable, and the more I think about it Haunt probably scales really well, and 20% extra DoT damage is no laughing matter, but Haunt might create a hectic rotation, which I believe was the reason for them implementing Everlasting Afflicition, it helps alleviate the stress of multiple timers and global cooldowns with eliminating the need to watch Corrupution, but back on topic Haunt being another thing to cast and timer to watch it leaves a less room for Shadowbolt. Shadowbolt which when spec'd improved is going to going to give 15% more to all shadow damage done by the warlock not just DoTs which is nice and will be up more consistantly with more Shadowbolt casts (Could work against you too by using up all the charges random number generator FTL), and with 100% more critical Strike Damage big damage on shadowbolt might make up for the DPS dipscrepancy, not having that Consistant 20% more DoT damage....not to mention shadow bolt is a very nice 100% Spell Damage Coefficient, at a 2.5 second cast because of talents.. which means it scales fairly well too... I kind of see more synergy with Ruin then Haunt as odd and noob-ish as that sounds

So long story short in my incompetent eyes, its very difficult to tell if Haunt will be will be better then Ruin, I am just bantering and theorycrafting with our more then knowledgable community, I welcome criticism with open arms, and corrections with the utmost thanks

after saying all that one more thing I would like to add Haunt build DPS will be far more consistant, and reliable, well EA/Ruin DPS will be jumpy and bursty, so there is a preference in play style too in my build I prefer big random numbers :P

PS tidbit of information about my build, if you remember back in the day every warlock and there mother spec'd SM/ruin, well I was remembering those days and thats what inspired me to create this build (to be honest its kinda of stolen :P) its kinda SM/ruin 2.0 or SM/Ruin ft. Everlasting affliction heh :P

(Again Reference tweaked a little http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=IfxbbzrAoVA00sxZE0hVM0z)

[Gnosys]

I think blizzard is making it fairly obvious how to make a good destro build....and no, it does not involve sacrificing a pet or spamming sb. Cut out all the irrelevant/pvp talents and that should help you figure out how to spec for max destro damage.....and also give you an idea of what your rotation should be.

_Gnosys

[azteck]

here is my aff build atm http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=I0xrburAoVioGstZE00V

i kept hearin and readin that people think felhunter is going to be good for pve its not, U will be using ur imp for the extra 1k life

[Lokian]

I was thinking this for affliction:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=Ifxr0drhoVqoIktZE0hVM

and this for fire destro:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=IZbxczsxoZVchqr0uVsAc0x

[Elgarta]

here is my aff build atm http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=I0xrburAoVioGstZE00V

i kept hearin and readin that people think felhunter is going to be good for pve its not, U will be using ur imp for the extra 1k life

The problem with that spec, is that you don't need Grim Reach if you don't have Destructive reach. Also malediction over imp CoA? And no points in the hit talents?

And the imps buff does not stack with Commanding shout, which will almost always be available in a 10-25 man raid. The felpup is a mana battery that can do some damage while you fight

I was thinking this for affliction:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=Ifxr0drhoVqoIktZE0hVM


Imp CoA and malediction? 3% spell damage is not a whole lot, especially considering there are plenty of damage modifier talents you can pick up :)

I think alot of people are seeing wotlk warlocks as bc warlocks. We will be operating quite differently, as affliction at least. It won't be the same.

[daank]

i have to agree with our moderator and our wonderful tweaker of his build to come up with http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=Ifx...VA00sxZE0hVM0z

The build set up for woltk isn't 2 buttons anymore for us. The ability to keep dots up passively and have 20% haste increase (eradicaton + everlasting affliction), which i am assuming is going to have a decent proc rate, the ability to have 100% certainty to reapply corruption to further assist eradication plus the extra 100% crit dmg increase from pandemic on top of the 100% crit dmg increase from destructions Ruin borderlines as retarded.

pre BC as affliction i could apply all dots and have 5 shadowbolts pushed off before i had to reapply, so having one less dot to reapply (corruption as we hope eradication's proc is decent + EA's help) equals more SBs in the same amount of time with more dmg from SBs (theoretically the haste + the 100% dmg increase from crits) plus the additonal amount of dmg the dots will be ticking for. jeeeeesus blizzard - really really read everlasting affliction...it doesn't stop at 5%...it says EACH time it inflicts dmg it adds 5%...that's just insane.

Affliction is maximizing a rotation to suite the needs...to me they just made it easier to smash faces with dots plus better shadow bolts. I honestly think this is the build majority of raiders may find themselves in since we can't proc a lot of the assisting buffs that really made destruction as powerful as it was. Don't get me wrong, I have been a destruction lock since lvl 0, but what they are lining up for affliction is pretty badass.

The only thing i would do differently with the above spec is move the 2 points from improved drain soul to improved life tap...we are warlocks...we have salv...we poop mana...i use rank one soul drain to conserve mana...i'd rather get more back with one click of life tap than get 15% back from one shard...

[Meedik]

Remember you won't benefit from using rank 1 soul drain with the downranking changes.

[Bignag]

Hmm, I am not sure if your reference talent build would be the most idea. Without haunt, you will see a big dps decrease as affliction. The bonus the debuff gives is really good. Your other point placements and reasoning does seem good though, so I think you know enough to at least learn if needed :P

Personally, the spec I am looking at, which could also be bad, I don't claim to be a brilliant warlock or anything, is this :)

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=IfxMbzrAoiAo0stZi0hV

It leaves 2 points free, which can go into Destro reach, imp drain soul, Death's Embrace (lol) or whatever, depending on threat in wotlk, and whether they actually fix DE to be useful.

I'm all about affliction. Went destro for the end of BT and beginning of Sunwell and detested it.. so being able to be viable, and enjoy my class that little bit more will be great :D

What rotation do you see yourself using? Boss/5mans pulls/Farming if you have the time. Appreciate it

[Ishamael]

i have to agree with our moderator and our wonderful tweaker of his build to come up with http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=Ifx...VA00sxZE0hVM0z

The build set up for woltk isn't 2 buttons anymore for us. The ability to keep dots up passively and have 20% haste increase (eradicaton + everlasting affliction), which i am assuming is going to have a decent proc rate, the ability to have 100% certainty to reapply corruption to further assist eradication plus the extra 100% crit dmg increase from pandemic on top of the 100% crit dmg increase from destructions Ruin borderlines as retarded.

pre BC as affliction i could apply all dots and have 5 shadowbolts pushed off before i had to reapply, so having one less dot to reapply (corruption as we hope eradication's proc is decent + EA's help) equals more SBs in the same amount of time with more dmg from SBs (theoretically the haste + the 100% dmg increase from crits) plus the additonal amount of dmg the dots will be ticking for. jeeeeesus blizzard - really really read everlasting affliction...it doesn't stop at 5%...it says EACH time it inflicts dmg it adds 5%...that's just insane.

Affliction is maximizing a rotation to suite the needs...to me they just made it easier to smash faces with dots plus better shadow bolts. I honestly think this is the build majority of raiders may find themselves in since we can't proc a lot of the assisting buffs that really made destruction as powerful as it was. Don't get me wrong, I have been a destruction lock since lvl 0, but what they are lining up for affliction is pretty badass.

The only thing i would do differently with the above spec is move the 2 points from improved drain soul to improved life tap...we are warlocks...we have salv...we poop mana...i use rank one soul drain to conserve mana...i'd rather get more back with one click of life tap than get 15% back from one shard...


Your spec isnt finish, says its got 46 points left :P

[Aranajt]

mby tryout the Sb cannon again?

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warlock=550030152230013002350000000352020201223210051000000000000000000000000000000000000

[brummie]

So, when i went trough the talent tree deahts embrace seemed pretty decent to me, i mean 12% damage for mobs <35% life, so 12% damage for 35% of the fight --> 4.2% dps increase for 3 points.

pretty good, no?

well our dear mod laughed at it... i fail to see why it would be bad :X
care to elaborate?

[gorby]

I was thinking this for affliction:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=Ifxr0drhoVqoIktZE0hVM

and this for fire destro:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=IZbxczsxoZVchqr0uVsAc0x

I read backdraft actualy lowers dps in a stand and nuke situation (its better to not use conflag) - is this still true?

[Eclipze]

Ok, Blizz is working the game so all the classes have something to add to the raid - buff wise. I was trying to find out what my locks are. So far i think the deep demo "Demonic Pact" is the only one. Besides the whole HS and SS we have going here.

My demo spec, because i like it. http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=I0hZotIzsxMi0sguVoV

[netfelix]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IbZbgczsgzA0sguVoE00V

Is what I was thinking for a Demonology build. You'll be throwing a lot of Shadowbolts as Demonology, so Ruin would be a must IMO.

[Eclipze]

well, how would you do it at 70?

[Jonno]

currently, im specced almost exactly the same as Eclipze, with a few adjustments...

imp health funnel would be useless unless the mob is focussing on your pet - Fel synergy heals him for much more dmg than hes gets from what ive seen.
Having never used the magic stones i would have never thought to get master conjorer though, perhaps i should for the sake of the extra dmg/haste

oh and the ruin would only be available at 80 with full demo, but i can see it being very useful with me almost going back to the good old spam s-bolt

I'm not sure if full demo is the best pve spec though, but it felt better than detro or afflic for damage (i think ive reached 10 respecs since 3.0 :D).

[netfelix]

well, how would you do it at 70?

For raiding pre Wrath? I wouldn't ><

mp health funnel would be useless unless the mob is focussing on your pet - Fel synergy heals him for much more dmg than hes gets from what ive seen.
Having never used the magic stones i would have never thought to get master conjorer though, perhaps i should for the sake of the extra dmg/haste

No other place to put the points really. 2/2 Conjurer and 1/2 Imp Health funnel might be the better way to go.

I'm not sure if full demo is the best pve spec though, but it felt better than detro or afflic for damage (i think ive reached 10 respecs since 3.0 ).

So far, Destro seems like a fire version of Affliction. Juggle the dot's and spam incinerate.

[Eclipze]

Well, my lock has been an alt for ages. So all these nice quick run that everyone is doing will benefit my char a Lot. So i'm doin this demo raiding build up to 70. For some reason i never thought about putting points into Destro.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IZotfzstMi0sguVoV0h

[Crutchez]

I never actually really read forums, post on forums, or make it look like my epeen is bigger. I just spent 250g trying out a number of different Affliction specs, 1 DEEP demonology spec and a deep destro spec all in the hopes of pushing out more DPS.

As my first tests I tried out the Everlasting Affliction spec with Haunt keeping it up through Drain Life as the refresher on Haunt was failing for Soul Siphon, so throwing up 1 tick of Drain Life it kept both the SS and Cor. up. This using a full mana pool with drain lifes until I couldnt do any more left me at about 1900 DPS.

Second was the same as the previous without Haunt and a few other talents with 3-4 more points into Destro. This with a very similar rotation I capped out at about the same damage, a little lower in fact. So if this proves anything, deep tree afflicition if you are going affliction is the way to go. I can also only speculate the differece of when a mob goes below 35% health that the 15% crit with a proper SB spec in Destro may do tremendous more DPS keeping crits up, but IMO if you have enough crit (Mathematically with 25% crit you should keep up the Imp SB buff anyways, not including the 5% more in Destro from Devastation if you got that far... will dabble into this later).

Deep Demonology... ok, this spec is full of lose. Plain and simple. There is simply NO way to justify in a 10 man ESPECIALLY a 25 man the usage of Metamorphosis. If you are gonna tank a boss, you may as well just life tap to 2% and then Hellfire yourself and save the healers some mana pool. Needless to say the DPS was low, in the 1400 range with a lot of fluctuation.

Finally the spec I started playing with and ultimately after this tremendous 1.5 hours and 250g in respec's I came to this:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IZbxszsgMq0sxkAZE0hVM0z

This is the spec I have been raiding in since I turned 80 and tested out to the highest DPS I could get on the test dummy's. With this spec on the dummy's I average between 2200-2250 self buffed with only the firestone for some extra crit and damage, Fel Armor, Fel Guard and Soul Link. Keeping a rotation of entering a fight as CoE (10% damage is tremendous), Corruption and Immolate (this put a dot effect up right off the bat but gives the tank time to get a solid 10-15k threat before you open up SB's... also can allow for procs early for hefty DPS starters). After you continue your SB's dont worry about putting immolate back up, the DoT and instant is not warranted especially since there is no Glyph or proc in that spec to warrant the damage. One SB alone with my gear and raid buffs nails for over 3800 on 10 mans and usually 4-4.2k non crit which places the immolate with a initial crit at at least 300-400 damage less. Just keep SB'ing and throw back up your Corruption again at the tail end of your SB right after your Corruption expires. Also key to this spec is making sure you have the SB Major Glyph to put you into Shadowtrance. This spec so far has allowed me in 10 mans to average about 2400 DPS and in the 25 man Naxx I cranked out an average of shy of 3200.

In my opinion, Warlocks are still a top DPS. They are not what Hunters are... yet... but this I think will change with the scaling and spell damage that comes available in later 10's and especially 25 man raiding situations.

Also here is a link to my armory so you can see the stats I have at the moment. Not sure if it is updated as of today (Wednesday Dec. 3) but it should be as I have Naxx tonight so I will be logging out in my raiding gear after tomorrow night. Hope this helps some people and nay-sayers that locks are a thing of the past...

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Deathwing&n=Crutchez