Smite/Holy DPS

[Opsys]

Yeah the title says it all...currently I'm assembling a gear set to go Smite Spam, just curious if anyone had any input on whether to stack crit or haste. Haste is very exciting to get those Smites/Holy Fires off quickly but crit leads to free spells.

I'm aware there is a thread on Elitist about this but I can't seem to find it, any input is appreciated.

[Ideon]

i'm sorry, why do you need to "spam smite"?
btw crit is almost the same as haste, as long as u have enuf mana (i am refering to haste) :)
Imo if haste messes up your spell rotation you should switch to crit :) it's all about how you play

[Penguin]

i'm sorry, why do you need to "spam smite"?
btw crit is almost the same as haste, as long as u have enuf mana (i am refering to haste) :)
Imo if haste messes up your spell rotation you should switch to crit :) it's all about how you play

Maybe you don't understand how a smite build works the whole point of "spamming Smite" is to proc surge of light which is a proc that has a 50% chance to make your next smite instant cast with no mana cost but unable to crit, so your input wasn't really helpful.

Personally trying it out myself a little i would go more for crit as with smite being a fairly fast cast as it is the amount of spellhaste you would need to get to the point of it being worth it is a little too much, where as with crit and the fact the talent has no cooldown the more crit you get the higher dps output you can maintain.

Smite build will probably be my leveling spec as i haven't really enjoyed shadow and big flashing crits on your screen are always fun :p.

[stba]

so your input wasn't really helpful.
wasn't really the first time..

as for op, go with the crit, haste is bonus :)

[Brachamul]

I have made the calculations for a priest friend. I'm quite used to theorycrafting so I feel confident my results are very reliable. Basically, stack a lot of bonus damage. Surge of Light is nice, but it's not worth stacking crit to proc it.

When you reach about 1000 spell damage, spell haste starts to be a little better than pure damage. However spell haste is very mana inefficient, so my personnal advice is to stick with Damage. You'll also need tons of spirit to keep your mana high enough to last awhile.

[Quaalude]

Well, understand this. While haste is a burden on your mana, it is STILL point-for-point the BEST stat once you are hit-capped in terms of dps. And who cares how fast you run oom if you're out-dpsing the competition?

[Powerpal]

Well, uhm, say you spam /w spell haste, and then you go oom, and the priest that stacked spelldamage instead has half his mana left and has done more damage/spell than you have.

[Quaalude]

Well, uhm, say you spam /w spell haste, and then you go oom, and the priest that stacked spelldamage instead has half his mana left and has done more damage/spell than you have.

Then the argument that haste is point-for-point better than spelldamage goes out the window. And realistically, as a fire-specced mage (which means I have 0 passive mana regen with Molten Armor up) spamming rubies and pots, and a modest group setup, I rarely have mana problems. But I also don't have a large amount of haste yet. When I acquire gear that will bump my haste more significantly, I assume my group will have at least a spriest or shaman in it.

So a smite-dps priest, who has passive mana regen if they went deep enough in Holy (which they very should have) you won't be blowing mana as fast a mage. It's up to you to be able to manage your mana sufficiently though.

[Celia]

So a smite-dps priest, who has passive mana regen if they went deep enough in Holy (which they very should have) you won't be blowing mana as fast a mage. It's up to you to be able to manage your mana sufficiently though.

The mana regen talent is early Disc, not deep Holy. Raiding fire mages that have any mana problems at all switch to mage armor for it's 30% passive regen.

Smite is the most mana inefficient base spell in game. In order to successfully smite spam, you need ridiculous levels of mana regen, basically you'll be gemming entirely for spirit. Also consider you'll be doing less DPS than destro locks, fire and arcane mages, or elemental shaman, even if you have a ret paladin in your group.

It is a fun spec to play, I did the smite DPS thing all the way through Kara and enjoyed it. Just don't fool yourself into thinking you'll ever top a damage done chart on a 7-minute boss fight. You'll have blown all your mana, all your cooldowns, all your consumables, and you'll still be OOM with half the boss fight left to go.

As far as mana efficiency goes you're better off Holy Fire spamming and using whatever SoL procs you get. Holy DPS gets much better in WotLK. From what I understand, disc gets a holy mind flay that can heal friends and hurt enemies, and also can crit on each tick.

[Opsys]

Yeah I'm not super concerned with topping meters etc..generally I'll be using it on "Farm" nights, at least at first just more of a test, if I can make it work I'll bring it to the actual raids.

What I'm taking away is:
1.Spirit is good(was planning on attempting to stack as much anyway)
2.Crit>Haste until +1100 damage or so
3.Continue bringing 8000 mana pots to raid(I raid shadow)

I will be testing a couple different builds and I'll try to bring at least my observations back so anyone who's interested in the future can have a nice tool, with the supposed "leak" of priest talents from WotLK, this build seems like it will be much more viable.

[Quaalude]

The mana regen talent is early Disc, not deep Holy.

Smite is the most mana inefficient base spell in game. In order to successfully smite spam, you need ridiculous levels of mana regen, basically you'll be gemming entirely for spirit. Also consider you'll be doing less DPS than destro locks, fire and arcane mages, or elemental shaman, even if you have a ret paladin in your group.

It is a fun spec to play, I did the smite DPS thing all the way through Kara and enjoyed it. Just don't fool yourself into thinking you'll ever top a damage done chart on a 7-minute boss fight. You'll have blown all your mana, all your cooldowns, all your consumables, and you'll still be OOM with half the boss fight left to go.

As far as mana efficiency goes you're better off Holy Fire spamming and using whatever SoL procs you get. Holy DPS gets much better in WotLK. From what I understand, disc gets a holy mind flay that can heal friends and hurt enemies, and also can crit on each tick.

It seems if you have the ability to spec/gear for Smite-dps in a BT/SWP raid setting, you would have a group tailored to your needs. But with the dmg and benefit that Shadow provides, I don't see any raid bringing a Smite-dps priest unless for fun.

[Celia]

It seems if you have the ability to spec/gear for Smite-dps in a BT/SWP raid setting, you would have a group tailored to your needs. But with the dmg and benefit that Shadow provides, I don't see any raid bringing a Smite-dps priest unless for fun.

Bringing a Holy DPS Priest to Brutallus is an excellent way to never beat the enrage timer.

Even with a group tailored to the Priest (Sanctity Aura, Moonkin Aura, Imp. Mana Spring & Mana Tide Totems, and Vampiric Touch) You're still looking at problems not only with going OOM early, but simply lackluster damage output. Simply put, Smite is a bad spell. Terrible coefficient, worst mana efficiency of any base spell, and almost no synergy with any other class.

Like I said before, it's a fun spec to play. Just don't expect any progression kills while you're doing it.

[Quaalude]

Yep, exactly like you put it. A smite priest offers no raid buffs like a moonkin or elemental shaman. If smite was to be a viable dps-spec for end-game raiding, then you'd have to have a whole tree devoted to it in my opinion.

[stba]

this wasn't about smite being viable or not raid spec..

[Quaalude]

this wasn't about smite being viable or not raid spec..

If he's deciding whether to stack haste or crit then he obviously isn't levelling because gemming gear before 70 is rather pointless and a waste of money. And regardless of what he's using smite-dps for, we stated that haste is better. In a raid situation smite-dps spec isn't viable because you run oom fast regardless of your haste/crit.

Are you just a dumbass or are you just a troll?

[Quaalude]

If you can find haste gear pre-70 then go for it. I'd LOVE to see some pre-70 haste gear though. And even if there is a few pieces, good luck stacking it.

[Brachamul]

No, really, go for damage, damage is good, it's really good, it's really better than crit and haste.

[Celia]

No, really, go for damage, damage is good, it's really good, it's really better than crit and haste.

Haste scales DPS up linearly better than any other stat, and DPM down. Haste is ultimately better than spell damage, but by how much depends entirely on how much haste and damage you have as their relationship is not linear; it also depends on your spell rotations. A 3x Lightning bolt 1x Chain Lightning rotation doesn't benefit from haste until you can fit a fourth lightning bolt into the rotation without clipping the chain lightning cooldown.

As for pre-70 haste gear, there isn't any. Any haste you get would be from sockets, of which you could get 24 at max. 240 haste rating from 24 Quick Lionseye and a mix of healer and DPS gear from the mid-60s isn't my idea of a good haste set.

[Brachamul]

You need at least 1000 spell damage before haste is better DPS-wise. And even then, it's only very mildly better, and since it's also bad for your mana, there's really no point going for haste instead of damage.

[torchill]

The only haste thing for pre-bc was the mind quickening gem for mages and that was I think from naxx.

[Celia]

It was from Vael in BWL.

[Quaalude]

The only haste thing for pre-bc was the mind quickening gem for mages and that was I think from naxx.

It wasn't passive.

[poink]

I'm aware there is a thread on Elitist about this but I can't seem to find it, any input is appreciated.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t11091-priest_holy_smite_dps_viability/

[Opsys]

Thanks for the link.

Yeah I'm 70, no I'm not trying to go and do BT, MH, etc...with this build, but I want to try and test it for the future, as Disc/Holy seem to become more viable in WotLK, just as SP wasn't entirely raid viable pre-bc.
There's a lot of other factors that will have to enter in, Group Comp., +Damage, Haste, Mp5 etc..

[k_dub_1308]

Yep, exactly like you put it. A smite priest offers no raid buffs like a moonkin or elemental shaman. If smite was to be a viable dps-spec for end-game raiding, then you'd have to have a whole tree devoted to it in my opinion.

actually... looking at the WotLK talent trees, if one was to spec for smite spam, there's only so far you can go into the Holy tree before everything is for healing, so you'd have to put points into the Disc. Tree.

The Disc. Tree offers Divine Spirit and Imp. Divine Spirit which DOES offer a raid buff. Even helps Caster DPS out a little w/ +6% spell damage equal to spirit or whatever.

ALSO depending on how you spec you have Power Infusion and Pain Suppresion. While this is usually looked at as PvP, it CAN be helpful in raids depending on how you use it. "OH SHIT STUPID LOCK PULLED AGGRO!" /cast Pain Suppresion (decreases threat by 5% and all damage by 40%) helpful? YES?!

ALSO atm I am a holy priest, and my guild decided that the Imp. Divine Spirit buff would be helpful in raids. And it is... but it gimps my healing not having CoH. SO... if you had a Smite Spec Priest that has the Imp. Divine Spirit in the raid, that allows your holy priests to have CoH, which they DESPERATELY need if they want ANY chance to compete with Resto Shammies.

Just hoping that in WotLK they scale up the DPS output for a Smite Spec Priest.